Takayama in the pink...tough paddle

[jaffa1949]

Interesting, was the wave Lagide in Peniche? it has a very narrow peak that a meter either way can make catching the wave difficult, locals know the line well, took me some time to spot the line!

[tommykrebs]

No, because the wind comes from the east everybody, and I mean everybody!, tries to get a spot in the third row in Baleal. Not a bad wave, at least better than Sines or the spots around Sagres. I'm looking forward to "paddle" in Galicia in spring. Baleal is too crowded (thanks God, not in the morning) but I like Peniche so I stay somewhat longer.

edit: I just see that Lagide is the beach with Baleal at the end.

So far I catched two waves in Zavial (Sagres) with my 7ft Phish and four waves in Sines at the pier with my longboard and earlier, last September, just one wave in four weeks in Soulac sur Mer (France) with my longboard too. But this one was an unexpected long ride. Seven waves total in 2,5 month of surfing. Room for improvement, I would say.

But hey, I worked 6 years on my golfswing. Compared to this rollercoaster of a nightmare, surfing is a piece of cake. No kidding.

[tommykrebs]

When you see a good Golfer hitting the ball far and straight, you don't think that walking up to the tee box is the difficult part. For a good reason. Hitting the driver 250m with a 3m baby draw is like a late take off in a hollow breaking wave. You need quite some time to learn both things and I admit that I underestimated the difficulty of catching a green wave.

Sorry for the OT and my rant. I am sure that the Takayama is not my problem.

[BaNZ]

Sorry for the OT and my rant. I am sure that the Takayama is not my problem.

Not entirely. But don't quote me on this. 10 years ago I walked into a surf store to buy my first surf board. I think I even made a post about this on this forum. Can't believe it's been that long! time flies.

The sales person came over and showed me some boards, asked about my surfing level. I said I can catch waves. Then she ask what's the catch and miss ratio. I said yeah I'm pretty good but just started learning couple of months ago. She introduced me to the beginner boards, I think it was some local brand. I asked what's the difference between beginner and performance boards. She took out a Takayama, I don't remember what model it is. Might be in the pink or it might not. She laid both board side by side. Stepped on the tail and said look at the difference in the rocker. Takayama board clearly has much more rocker. Then I was like oh this must be an easy board since it won't nose dive that easily. She explained that is what you would think but that is not the case. Because it makes paddling much harder for beginners. She was like if you're worrying about nose diving, then Takayama board is not for you.

I've yet to surf a takayama so I can't tell you whether it's good or not. @waikikichan on the other hand would know everything about it.

[tommykrebs]

The Takayama ITP has only a little nose rocker.

When I watch other surfers, most with short boards, I can see the difference in paddling strength and the speed of the strokes and what I can do. It's too little. Here is the dilemma: If the wave is fast and steep (I use my 7ft mid-lenght), I paddle too slow to catch it. If I move more to the inside I get washed because I'm still paddling when the wave is breaking and if I move slightly to the outside to avoid getting washed, the wave is not steep enough. There is no in-between. The only thing I can do is to gain more strength and add a couple exercises to my daily yoga routine.

My goal is to carve my mid length boards, not to surf small waves with a foamy.

[Geezer]

The Takayama ITP has only a little nose rocker.

When I watch other surfers, most with short boards, I can see the difference in paddling strength and the speed of the strokes and what I can do. It's too little. Here is the dilemma: If the wave is fast and steep (I use my 7ft mid-lenght), I paddle too slow to catch it. If I move more to the inside I get washed because I'm still paddling when the wave is breaking and if I move slightly to the outside to avoid getting washed, the wave is not steep enough. There is no in-between. The only thing I can do is to gain more strength and add a couple exercises to my daily yoga routine.

My goal is to carve my mid length boards, not to surf small waves with a foamy.

No, there are other things you can do. Without seeing anything, I’d venture that you could Improve your pop up technique and speed.

Check this out for a start:

https://youtu.be/D3EH2OCiaQk

[waikikikichan]

If I move more to the inside I get washed because I'm still paddling when the wave is breaking.

Question: How many paddles are you taking to catch a wave ( on average ) ?

[tommykrebs]

If I move more to the inside I get washed because I'm still paddling when the wave is breaking.

Question: How many paddles are you taking to catch a wave ( on average ) ?

Interesting question. From the few I catched I needed a lot of strokes till I was gliding. A lot! Paddling all in and "for my life-style". And those waves were steep enough to give me chance to glide and not breaking in an instance. That's my problem now, find those steeper waves without being in the process of breaking. I cannot differentiate those from another. I' m not good enough to paddle for hollow breaking waves.

So if I paddle for a wave which is not "tail lifting steep" I will not get it. Never! Doesn't matter what I do, how hard or early I paddle. And since I paddle a lot, my sweet spot is correct. Either I am too weak, which I doubt, or the board has not enough volume for me.

I think its wasted energy to paddle hard in the flat infront of the wave. Usually I get some momentum with four easy strokes when the wave is approaching me, and paddle hard, chin down when the wave is reaching the tail. I cannot get more than five strokes done before the wave left me behind. And a later and steeper take off will be punished with a wipe out. There is no margin or scope. Only mellowe waves, big enough with a slope steep and long enough will let me catch a wave. Those are hard to find. Most are in the process of breaking.

I watch many surfers and the more I see, the less info I can get out of it. There is a longboarder in a one foot wave catching it easily with four strokes, or a shorboarder catches a wave effortless while a couple surfer with longer boards on the same wave paddling their asses of without getting it. The more I see, the less I understand. I see a surfer from the beach and I am sure he or she will get it and they fail and I see surfers paddling for a wave and I am sure that he or she will not be able to catch it and catches it.

Back to your question. The waves I catched needed around 10 to 15 very hard strokes. I don't get a wave, doesn't matter how steep, with four or five strokes. If you pack 10 strokes into a hollow breaking wave you are still paddling after you got washed. Haha.

[tommykrebs]

No, there are other things you can do. Without seeing anything, I’d venture that you could Improve your pop up technique and speed.

Check this out for a start:

https://youtu.be/D3EH2OCiaQk

I understand. The steeper the waves are, the faster your take off has to be. What I do now is to paddle for steeper waves, because I have no chance to catch the smaller mellow one's. I only focus on the lift of the tail and go into the cobra pose and stop there. I try to break the process of catch a wave down into parts. This makes it easier for me.

Problem for me is to find those waves. I know they exist because I already found a couple, but I cannot differentiate those from the close outs. So I had many late bail outs. I would like to paddle with my longboard earlier for waves, but it is not possible with this one. Give me more volume and I catch almost everthing, like I did in the past. But this 9ft longboard, I bought in San Diego, was way thicker than the Takayama. Now things are pretty complicated because many beach here in France, Spain and Portugal have hollow breaking waves.

And like I mentioned above. I am not able to find the "glide" in a steep wave with five hard strokes. That's the most I can put into the time frame before it breaks.

[waikikikichan]

The more I see, the less I understand.

I try to break the process of catch a wave down into parts. This makes it easier for me.

If you don't mind then, can you break down HOW you are paddling ?

1) Is your hand cupped or fingers spread or ........... ?
2) Are you paddling straight back from entry to exit ?
3) Not sure what your "cobra pose" is, but do you arch your back or have your chest down ?
4) Are you clinching your teeth or is your face relaxed ?
5) Are you scared of pearling / nose diving ?

[jaffa1949]

Tommy without seeing your paddling and take off techniques, we are only guessing and you are arguing for more volume as your friend.

Not so , why not end this problem by having someone video you paddling for waves and missing or succeeding the whole structure of what is going on will be revealed.
On board GoPro not a proposition for this. It is highly likely that your perception is quite different from the reality.

[tommykrebs]

I followed Rob Case on YT and paddled 2 month in a swimming pool to get it down.

1. my fingers are together and my hands are not cuped
2. I paddle over the barrel an "S" stroke
3. cobra pose is a yoga pose when arching the back
4. my face is probaply not relaxed because I give everthing I have but I keep the head still
5. if the wave is hollow breaking, yes with a longboard I'm scared but I need those steeper wave. Can't get to "glide" in time.

I saw myself paddling already. Compared to my spanish friend (20 years younger) I am paddling like under the influence of a tranquilizer. haha.

I do what I can. I am fit and not fat but apparently not strong enough to paddle hard.

[tommykrebs]

At least I now I know what kind of waves are good for me. Pretty much everything that's not hollow breaking.

[jaffa1949]

the reason I asked about the video, was so we could see to help you with what may be your issues your awareness could be squint!
At your weight and size everything should be ok but it ain‘t!

[tommykrebs]

In the end is it paddle speed, positioning (peak), steepness of the slope/wave. Given my sweet spot and my paddle technique are fine, than my paddle speed is not high enough which is the reason I'm looking for a steeper slope, which makes everything with a longboard more difficult. I cannot catch a wave with 6 hard strokes. I have no video from me paddlng but I have seen it. It is too weak compared to others. My spanish friend paddles for steep wave with his shortboard BAMM-BAMM-BAMM and jumps on the board. It's easy for me to see that I have not the strength. Nevertheless, thank you for your support. I am on my way to Galicia and maybe I will find some nice waves to paddle for. I will try to get a lesson once more. The teacher in Peniche was not interested to teach me and the teacher in Sines also. I am not somebody that believes everything and when I ask why, I expect an answer better than "because it's right". Call me difficult - I don't care. I don't need answers like "don't overthink, be one with the wave"

I believe in cause and effect.

[jaffa1949]

9‘3‘‘ at 63 YO does this count as steep?

[waikikikichan]

I followed Rob Case on YT and paddled 2 month in a swimming pool to get it down.

1. my fingers are together and my hands are not cuped
2. I paddle over the barrel an "S" stroke
3. cobra pose is a yoga pose when arching the back
4. my face is probaply not relaxed because I give everthing I have but I keep the head still
5. if the wave is hollow breaking, yes with a longboard I'm scared but I need those steeper wave. Can't get to "glide" in time.

I saw myself paddling already. Compared to my spanish friend (20 years younger) I am paddling like under the influence of a tranquilizer. haha.

I do what I can. I am fit and not fat but apparently not strong enough to paddle hard.

1) have your fingers just slightly spread, not touching each other.
2) "S" is good, but are you moving a Small amount of water a Far distance or a Large amount of water a Short distance ?
3) You cobra pose on the paddle or after you've stopped paddling ?
4) If your teeth are grinding, that's not good.

Something is just not adding up. You are fit ( and strong compared to others ), trained in paddling, have a good board, etc.

If I can diagnose, I would say you are paddling TOO HARD.

I am 125 lbs. / 56 kg. and riding a 8'0" with 73 liter of volume in a beach break.

Get in early, yank on the rail and fly.

[tommykrebs]

1. I tried this without any positive result. Why should it work better?
2. small amount vs large amount? How can I tell? It's always the same stroke.
3. into the cobra pose when I feel the glide. But not always.
4. are my teeth grinding, do I not breath? Probably.

I tried to paddle softer. Looks even worse. Why should I get the wave with less effort? You are slower.

All the waves I tried to catch at different spots are not easy mellow slopes with some white water at the top. More like too shallow-too catch it early, then very quick rising and finally hollow breaking. For me very difficult to handle. Not those nice mellow longboard waves shown in You Tube Videos.

I found those waves at the Praia do Azul here in Portugal. Mellow but big and some white water at the top to give you a gentle push. It looked so easy from the beach, but it was brutal out there. The white water which broke immediately over a stretch from 50m was one meter in height. There was no gentle push it burried me.

I found a Surf Instructor here in Boa Hora and I hope he will have a look.

The pic above: Steep is totally fine for me, as long not suddenly closing out and/or hollow breaking

[tommykrebs]

---I am 125 lbs. / 56 kg. and riding a 8'0" with 73 liter of volume in a beach break.---

I am 183lbs / 83kg and riding a 9ft with 70L volume. At least thats what the Takayama website says.

This is a huge difference in weight to volume ratio. Like all the young woman I watch catching every wave.... no wonder.

[Geezer]

I’ll “weigh” in. Currently 92 kg, 52 years old. Ride everything from a 10’ log to a 5’10” fish. I have a 9’ eps longboard that has 67L and can catch pretty much anything with it. Difference between that board and the log is how far I can go on the small wave once caught.
I paddle between 5-8 strokes for waves. If it takes more than that I’m out of position. Occasionally I’m on the edge if my range and I’ll paddle like a waterwheel and take 15-20 strokes and eek my way in or miss but I’m not up for working that hard for every wave. If I am, I look at my positioning because I am in the wrong place.
When I paddle for a wave I arch up, chest well off the board. When I catch I then arch higher using hands. I “grip” the board from the bottom edges of my ribcage down thru to the tops of my thighs like a remora. I may flatten out while going for the wave to force my way into the wave dive in and get that glide but usually if positioned right there is no need for that.

Inagree with WKK; I believe you are most likely paddling too hard. No matter how well you paddle you will NEVER match the speed of the wave. I woukd also GUESS that you are probably not moving enough water with your strokes and will with more practice and development of core muscles that keep you stable and poised so that you are able to deliver more power thru strokes. It will come. But besides pop up speed and technique, my best guess is that you aren’t in the right spot on the right waves.
Ive been teaching my daughter and thats what she is wrestling with now. If I choose the wave and starting position for her and tell her when to paddle she’s golden, but has problems doing thise things on her own. Again, time and experience, but paddling harder likely isn’t your problem.