Fish out of water....need advice.

[phunksoulbrotha]

Stats: Male, 150 lbs, 5'7" with a fairly active fitness level. Snowboarding and skating for over 25 years now with my ability level leaning towards the aggressive side of intermediate. I've only rented boards a few times and then attempted to find my own breaks without taking any lessons, which resulted in a lot of extra work to ride whitewater from waves clearly outside my ability level. I'm hoping to start out with a couple choices that will allow me to ride small, mushy surf up to waves head-high or maybe slightly overhead.

Although I'm new to surfing I'd like to start building a small quiver so that I can actually learn on boards that I can continue to ride later. I'm landlocked at the moment so I don't have anyone nearby that can aid me in sizing suggestions. I'm specifically looking at the Lib-Tech lineup as I have some decent discounts available to me. More specifically I was looking at their Pickup Sticks and the Lost Round Nose Fish (with my beginner mentality thinking the Pickup would be a good Mini-Mal/Longboard type board for starting out and the Fish giving me the ability to ride waves in situations where the Pickup would be overkill). The volumes on their boards look a bit higher than similar boards from competing brands and I'm wondering how much that will affect size selection? Please feel free to correct any assumptions I'm making regarding the boards. I'm also open to any other suggestions from their line that might suit me and my current goals better.

Thanks for any advice, stoked to be here!

[jaffa1949]

Welcome to,the wet side, Surfing.
I’ve had good look at the Lib tech boards, interesting in construction and development.
For your personal journey a few things to think about, surfing has a major component that other sports don’t!
PADDLING, all your previous sports you are already standing and the ride begins by pointing yourself downhill.

Beginners need a board to be able to paddle out to the waves and then be able to paddle with enough speed to,catch the waves and then in early stages be stable enough to get to standing.
We often recommend a first board around 3ft more than your height.
The boards you are considering have a great starting shape and will serve well for many years and through a lot of skill levels and wave conditions.

To be your starting boards would require a lot of water time surf intensive 101 to be successful, I would be recommending more in the 9ft range to counter the periods of being landlocked.
And don’t worry, good surfers can make a longboard sing in just about any high quality surf.
Hang around the forum, more advice from the crew will come.
Welcome again!

[phunksoulbrotha]

Thank you for the response. Let me expand just a bit about my few experiences and future plans to see if that helps any.

The first smack in the face that surfing gave me was the paddling aspect. I had no idea how to read the water let alone the patience to watch what everyone else was doing so I charged right into the set with a 9ft board and got annihilated for the better part of an hour. I finally made it out and after resting a bit, caught my first few closed out/whitewater rides back in. Popping up was easy, balancing was fairly easy, trimming the board (is that a thing?) parallel to the wave face ended in defeat every time. Fast forward a couple years; I rent again and just head down the beach to find a place I can try again without so many watchful eyes. The board was closer to a 7'10" or so and the waves were easily head high, closing out on both sides (I know realize it was a horrible spot to even be). Same results as the previous attempt other than being easier to paddle out.

I also have a fair bit of experience behind a boat on wake/skate/surfboards and am pretty decent on a flowrider. I don't know if any of that makes a difference though as again, no paddling involved. I feel like other than being able to read the water a bit better (paddling out in the right spot/reading the line-up and sets) my biggest hurdle is going to be turning and riding with the wave.

I've now admitted to myself that a camp or some lessons at the very least are in order. I lived in Bali for almost 2 years working as a dive instructor and the current plan is to get a couple boards and head out to Indo for at least a month or 2 of nothing but surfing. I'm already looking at a couple of camps that I'm sure would have softies available and bigger boards for beginners. I'm really curious to know if the extra volume the Lib boards have, give the boards additional float thus allowing the rider to size down? They are doing this a lot in snowboarding at the moment with shapes that are inspired by surfing. Boards that have more volume in certain areas (usually the nose) that allow the rider to ride something more maneuverable because of the smaller size, in conditions that would normally call for a longer board.

[jaffa1949]

I can suggest you read through a fair bit of the surfboard advice.
There is a lot more to surfboards than just volume. Outline rail shape, tail shape, width, thickness and how each of them interrelate are important.
You can have any number of same volumed boards , and similar shapes but where and how that volume is distributed will change a lot!
Talk a lot with the lib tech guys if they are going to be your go to guys!

Early days try every board you can get your hands on, see what works for you!

[waikikikichan]

Although I'm new to surfing I'd like to start building a small quiver so that I can actually learn on boards that I can continue to ride later.

If you're just learning to shoot your first pellet gun, should you go out and buy a .44 magnum or a Barrett .50 cal since eventually in time you get to that stage ? A quiver is built up over time as you reach stages in your surfing level and surf breaks you master.
Master the paddling and take off on a board 3 feet over your head. Then progress to a board 2 feet over your head once your can Trim consistently and start to do turns.

Snowboarding and skating for over 25 years now with my ability level leaning towards the aggressive side of intermediate.

Question: Your level is "aggressive side of intermediate" is for snowboarding/skating ? Or for surfing ?

[BoMan]

I'd like to start building a small quiver so that I can actually learn on boards that I can continue to ride later.

I agree with WKKKChan's advice about the 1st board being 3 feet over your height and gradually building a quiver. That said, there's good surfboard design info here...
http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfboard-design/

[phunksoulbrotha]

If you're just learning to shoot your first pellet gun, should you go out and buy a .44 magnum or a Barrett .50 cal since eventually in time you get to that stage ? A quiver is built up over time as you reach stages in your surfing level and surf breaks you master.
Master the paddling and take off on a board 3 feet over your head. Then progress to a board 2 feet over your head once your can Trim consistently and start to do turns.

I'm confused by the analogy. The mechanics involved in shooting any type of handgun are going to be the same regardless of caliber. The caliber will change how much strength the user may need in order to operate the firearm effectively but the mechanics don't change. If I was contemplating skipping a longboard all together and going straight to a shortboard then I could see it being more applicable. What major differences would I notice between an 8'6" and a 7'6" other than the longer having a larger margin for stability but being harder to paddle out because of it's size?

Maybe I'm totally out of my depth here or misreading the response. How do I master a specific condition if I don't have the board necessary for it? Are you suggesting I wait to get certain boards until I know how to ride well in the conditions those specific boards were built for? I realize I may not have the skills for certain boards/conditions yet but I don't see how it could hurt to already have those boards ready and put them to use as soon as I want to try those different conditions.

Question: Your level is "aggressive side of intermediate" is for snowboarding/skating ? Or for surfing ?

This is for my snowboarding/skating ability. Wasn't sure how much relevance it has.

[phunksoulbrotha]

I agree with WKKKChan's advice about the 1st board being 3 feet over your height and gradually building a quiver. That said, there's good surfboard design info here...
http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfboard-design/

I really appreciate the responses and info guys.

I feel a little like "3' over your head" is the standard regurgitated response. That's hard for me to rationalize because I don't believe every beginner starts from the same spot or with the same ability. The responses I'm getting here are similar to what I've been told by others I don't know very well. When I've had the chance to ask the few friends I know that have surfing experience or have seen me participate in the other board sports, the suggestions usually veer more towards getting something a little more manageable in size and heading straight into smaller green waves.

Not trying to argue or be stubborn, just trying to get a feel for what real world differences I may experience choosing the longer over the slightly shorter. Thanks again.

[oldmansurfer]

I don't think snowboarding or skating makes you able to read and catch waves or gives you the right muscle fitness for paddling. But you can always try a shorter board and change if it's too difficult

[Tudeo]

I learned to surf on a 7'9 Bic 28 years ago, I'm 6' and 80kg (then). I always considered this board perfect for learning, for it's indestructible strenght and size, I was topfit then so paddling was no problem.
Now I consider myself an experienced surfer of intermediate skill, i own about 9 boards, 3 of them longboards: 8'2 funboard, 9'2 allround and 9'4 noserider.
I don't think a 9' is the best board for learning for somebody ur size and fitness. 9'+ Ís a must for lower fitness and 80kg+ beginners, mainly because these boards make paddling more easy. But a longer board is harder to handle in the water, and hard on takeoffs when waves are a bit steeper because they pearl easy.
For u I would think 7'6, under 60L big enough.
Do some reading about how to get outside and dealing with whitewater and how to position yourself. Please take extra good notice of surf etiquette, don't spoil it for other surfers.

Edit: just looked at that Pick Up Stick. Seems to me the perfect board for you, for learning and for improving. Go for it!

Enjoy!

[oldmansurfer]

I learned on a 6'10" board and was 6'2" tall and weighed 165 at the time and only went for green waves and surfed every single day. But I was very familiar with the waves due to a long history of bodysurfing and bodyboarding prior to surfing. If you get a shorter board and it turns out too difficult then you can put it away and get a longer board to learn on. It will be good for you at some time in the future. However you might wait til you are near the ocean to buy a board. If you can't go frequently then a longer board will be friendlier to you. If you can go a few times a week then a shorter board becomes more realistic.

[phunksoulbrotha]

I think that was what I was getting at without realizing how to say it. I have above average balance because of the other sports, I have a fairly high fitness level for my age and I "understand" the mechanics of what I need to do on the wave. Although I've lived the majority of my life in landlocked areas, working and living on islands for the last 6 years as a dive instructor has definitely given me a lot of awareness and knowledge about the water I didn't have before. I know I still have a fair bit to learn but again, I think it's another category I'm slightly ahead of the curve on. I'm also not opposed to having boards on standby for the future if my current ability isn't up to snuff for what they demand.

This photo is of my second time out on a 7'8"-7'10" somewhere in Costa Rica. Never stood any of em up because it was closing out but had a blast trying.

I fully intend on learning all I can in regards to etiquette. That and the skills regarding reading the water and line-up protocols were my main intentions of possibly doing a camp aside from the instruction.

[ConcreteVitamin]

Just get a foamie. I don't dive, but I came into surfing with experience surfing and skating as well. Let me tell you they do not help. In fact, I quickly realized surfing helps in *those* sports. If you get a non-foamie, in the conditions you just posted it's highly likely you will hit the board with your body > 0 occurrence within the next 6 months.

[waikikikichan]

Sorry for my thoughts on multiple responses without quoting them.

1) My analogy with the guns was for building a Quiver too early. Agreed the skills needed and attained early on, transfers to later guns ( and surfboards ). But why get a gun you won't be using ? Same for boards, keeping them in the storage, closest or up in the rafters, they tend to banged around, dinged up and scratches.

2) If you are adverse to getting a board 3 feet over your head and are ready ( paddling, positioning, timing, ) for the next step, then by all means a board 2 feet over your head would be good. So at 5'7", the 7'6" Lib Tech Pick Up Sticks seems about right.

3) What ever your skills / fitness from Skate, Snow and Wake are beneficial for standing and maneuvering. But Surfing is 90% paddling. Meaning most of the time you're paddling to get to the wave, Paddling to catch the wave, Paddling to stay out of the way, Paddling to stay in the right spot. Only a small part of the time you're actually on your feet. Without the boat there's no wake. Skatings no fun uphill. You don't need to "catch" the mountain. You DO, however, need to catch the wave. And that's why I was being cautious with my recommendation.

4) The Costa Rica wave is un-rideable. No one on any board could make use of those conditions. ( or probably only a bodyboarder pulling in to get shacked for a second ). Some waves are just not meant to be ridden.

[oldmansurfer]

Just to put a perspective on things here. This is a topic that comes up again and again on this forum. Waikikichan is a surf instructor. From previous discussions I know he is worried you might develop bad habits learning on a board too short for you. I guess he sees this kind of stuff all the time but not me LOL. Anyway we all want to help you out.

[phunksoulbrotha]

My intention wasn't to beat a dead horse and I really do appreciate all the replies and information. I hope my responses are taken at face value and nothing more is read into them (this is the internet). My main intention was information on those boards specifically and I think I have what I need to know in addition to some other very helpful suggestions.

I have a genuine thirst for knowledge as I've not only participated in those other sports but I manage a very healthy, core Skate & Snow shop in Utah and I love the technical aspects of all this stuff. I love getting someone their first set-up or getting someone a more specific quiver board to add another level of stoke to the sport for them. I'm also sure I'm not unlike other beginners, where my froth level is far exceeding that of my abilities. I have read tons about surfing so far, but there's nothing like first hand experience and I realize that as well.

I know a 1-2 month camp will make me a very weak rider at best without constant exposure to working the muscles and getting the muscle memory/reaction that is required of highly dynamic sports such as these. I'm not afraid of the hard work it's gonna take as that's nothing new and I'm fairly familiar with taking a beatdown from boards that aren't soft and exposure to bottom elements. I am a fairly strong swimmer, and am hoping to make the jump somewhere coastal again in the near future so hopefully that will only fuel me further.

I will probably take advantage of a good deal and get the boards. They'll be there when I need them and I generally take really good care of my equipment so I'm not too worried about wear and tear. I can always sell them if they don't work out.

Many thanks for all the comments and welcoming a new guy without judgment or attitude. Hope the swells good wherever you're at!

[jaffa1949]

I’m surprised that no one has hung the handle, Johnny Utah on you!
Your last post is a plan, works or doesn’t work it’s covered!

Just gopher it!

[waikikikichan]

I can definitely relate to your situation. I was the surf buyer for Town and Country Surf Shops. Later I managed the Skate department at another shop. I remember the first skatedecks that Lib Tech put out using “snowboard” technology. Wish I had bought that Koi Fish deck. So it’s understood, even though you’re land locked, that you’d want to take advantage of the opportunity/discounts available to you to buy surfboards while you have the chance. I could’ve got a really good deal on a Lib Tech snowboard, but living in Hawaii there wasn’t much chance to use it.

[dtc]

If I caught 20 waves in a session and each ride was 10 seconds long, that would be a great session

So that’s 3 minutes of actually surfing. Out of 2 hours or more. So actually riding the wave is less than 2% of the time you are on the water. The suggestions being made are to

- make that other 98% as easy as possible

- maximise the chance of you actually catching a wave

- maximise the chance of you riding that wave for more than 1 second

In other words, your snow expertise is useful, but only at the last 2% of a chain of events. Your water knowledge is quite useful, so it’s not being discounted, but it’s useful for safety and stress more than surfing itself

That said, get the board you want, surf it, see how you go. All boards can be surfed, so it’s an issue of whether your skills are sufficient. The trouble with shorter boards is that there can be a gap between your skills and the skills required, but you can’t bridge that gap because it’s too big and there are no intermediate steps you can take (surfing is either ‘you caught the wave’ or ‘you didn’t’). Not everyone has that gap, but if you do then it can be months of frustration

Longer boards are the intermediate step.

[gsseirik]

My best advice is to listen to the forumites above, they have helped a lot of surfers. And allow yourself to start on level 0 in surfing, or else you might have to return to this level later on to improve more advanced stuff;-)