Front side bottom turn advice

[CSAWS]

Hi All,

I am riding my 10' beast (my first board, a soft-top). I have been working hard on good paddling form, which has led to more consistent rides. Now, I am turning my attention to developing solid bottom turns. Backside, for what ever reason, is more natural to me. The other day I was actually able to get the back-side rail decently into the face of the wave, which made a huge difference in my boards responsiveness. I felt the push/pressure of the water under the tail and really felt in control of the turn, which was new territory for me. I have been trying hard to get that same feeling on my front side bottom turn.

The other day I had a good chance for a front side turn...I was in the middle of the board (so not stalling the board b/c I am too far back) and the wave was set up to go front side. I was able to only slightly turn the board and unable to really get the rail to dig-in to the wave. I am pretty sure my head and shoulders were turned up the wave but, for whatever reason, I was unable to get the board to lean enough to get the rail to engage...I ended up with a slight turn to the right (I am regular footed) then whitewater.

Do I just need to really get my chest over the front side rail to get the board to turn or do I need to step back a bit towards the tail before I try to turn? maybe i am too tall and not bending my knees enough? I have seen other long boarders whip their board around on the front side so I know its possible! any advice is appreciated!

[jaffa1949]

You summed up,the problem in one sentence, you were trying to turn from the middle of a 10ft board, no can do, you noticed the rail couldn't engage into the face, think here, you are trying to push turn by leaning at least 6 foot of rail into the face.
A long board needs a good step back to the tail to drive a bottom turn. Have a look at the guys that seem to pivot on a dime/ penny/ shilling, euro or whatever. Where are they standing?
Do a little experiment, try to push your 10ft rail into the water compare with what happens when you push the tail into the water
Then try to turn each amount of rail.
The answers are there

[dtc]

as jaffa said, you cant turn from the middle of a longboard. Have a look on youtube for 'wingnuts art of longboarding' or indeed any longboarding video. You will literally have to walk back a bit to get your weight over the tail

Why can you do it backside? probably because you are leaning more heavily on your heels and twisting your body more (to look at the face) and maybe you just happened to put more weight on the back foot, and/or turn earlier on the face (when you have more speed: more speed = easier to turn - you can do rail turns to some extent).

[waikikikichan]

CSAWS, some questions:
1) do you come from a Snowboarding back ground ?
2) could you explain "the wave was set up to go frontside".
3) where are your toes pointed to on your left foot and right foot ? More to the nose or more to the right rail ?

[CSAWS]

True, true...the longboard guys that turn on a dime are definitely over the fins and not in the middle of the board. I thought about that and clearly that's something I need to do better. I am a newbie surfer and I guess I was a little thrown off because I don't really step back to the tail on my backside turn and the board can turn fine.

Waikikikchan, I am a snow skier and not a boarder but I used to ride both street and half-pipes on a skateboard (although, I never got good enough to ollie off the coping to get air on the ramps). What I was saying about the wave is that it was breaking from left to right so I needed to turn right (front side for me) to go down the line on the unbroken part of the wave. regarding my toes, I honestly have no idea. I don't think I pivot in any way on either my heel or ball of my foot...I pretty sure I am flat footed and my toes are facing my front side rail all the time. my front foot might be slightly open but my back foot is definitely closed.

[waikikikichan]

This was taken two days ago on a knee high wave. I'm using a Donald Takayama Surftech Beach Break 9'0". Pulling the board back down on a crumbly lip is a lot about timing and being pro-active, not reactive.

http://static.blog-video.jp/output/hq/kTSq2M5OfPGyt2OyEP2sQF9m.mp4

[dtc]

True, true...the longboard guys that turn on a dime are definitely over the fins and not in the middle of the board. I thought about that and clearly that's something I need to do better.

Its often said that getting the weight over the fins is one of the big steps in learning to surf - it doesnt seem natural, its hard to do when your focus is mostly on staying upright and figuring out what the wave is doing (instead of just 'knowing' what its doing, which is from experience). So you are the first person to be a bit tentative on this - it will come

This was taken two days ago on a knee high wave. I'm using a Donald Takayama Surftech Beach Break 9'0". Pulling the board back down on a crumbly lip is a lot about timing and being pro-active, not reactive. [/url]

thats just showing off...

[oldmansurfer]

One of the things I noticed when I was learning to surf (the second time) was that when I popup backside my feet were in different places than when I popup frontside. This was a while back when I was just starting out. I think something about looking the other way on the wave makes me want to put my feet in different places. I suppose it is possible that is happening with you too.

[dtc]

So you are the first person to be a bit tentative on this - it will come

Aren't the first person!

[Big H]

Step back and turn off the tail....lean back to turn......once you make the turn step forward and get speed....rinse-repeat. .

Google Longboard videos on YouTube and watch random surfers ride longboards....moving up and down the board is something you will notice they have in common....watch more closely and take note of WHEN they move and what the wave is doing/what they are trying to achieve with the movement.

[Big H]

To get the feeling of turning from the tail, practice sitting on your board and spinning around 180* (a skill you need anyway). Sit in the middle of the board and try....progressively put back and try until you are near the tail and the board is point high out of the water.....the further back to the tail you are the easier it is to turn. Apply that to when you are standing.

[Big H]

Besides the rest of the advice.....if you are going slow enough that you will stall turning off the tail then don't go back that far.....stop looking at your feet and worry about setting rails and instead keep your head up and look where you want to go.....do this from the prone paddling position and just always stay focused down the line and never look down; you will be amazed how much easier it is to go where you look if you look where you want to go.....the rails and the rest will take care of themselves.

[oldmansurfer]

If it is any consolation to you, I quit surfing for 12 years and restarted. I found that initially my backside bottom turn was better than my frontside bottom turn. I surfed for 3 years at a rate of about 30 minutes a week before I felt my frontside bottom turn had caught up. Then for a long time my frontside was better because I surfed mostly frontside. Lately I have been surfing mostly backside so my backside bottom turn has been improving. I think for me I can be a bit more forward on the board for either front or backside bottom turns and have no problems with that but then making the following turns I have to shift my feet so I try to stay back for the bottom turns also because often I don't have enough time to shift my feet after the bottom turn.

[CSAWS]

Thanks to everyone for all the input...I will put it to use this week and see what I can do about rockin' some front side bottom turns!

I don't have a go-pro so I can't video me wiping out trying to turn...haha...

Conditions are supposed to be pretty good all week so fingers x-d.

[jaffa1949]

Thanks to everyone for all the input...I will put it to use this week and see what I can do about rockin' some front side bottom turns!

I don't have a go-pro so I can't video me wiping out trying to turn...haha...

Conditions are supposed to be pretty good all week so fingers x-d.

Would be even better if you got someone to video you from the beach. GoPros show some but don't tell the whole story. Beach videos show the whole stance and action in response to the wave's action. Very enlightening and humbling at the same time.

[pmcaero]

Frontside bottom turns took me a long time to get to the stage of riding down the line after pop-up. The great surfers of these forums were instrumental with help and encouragement.

[CSAWS]

So a few quick updates...first, the storm "Gert" put up some decent swells in NC about 2 weeks ago. I rode some 5-6' waves...was ABSOLUTELY AWESOME. Sooo much faster on the drop in...it took me one wave to figure out I needed to wait about 2 or 3 seconds longer before trying to bottom turn so I could make it to the bottom of the wave with maximum speed (in normal NC surf, you may get 1 or 2 seconds of drop before you are in the flats)...was really fun and I now wish I lived in Hawaii.

On my bottom turn progress, I am pretty confident in my backside turns and feel very good about that side. I also made some good front-side progress. Last time I was in the water, for the first time, I felt the tail dig into the wave on my front side. I am getting more comfortable really leaning into the wave more aggressively. I am also trying to put some pressure on my back foot to lift the nose of the board, in addition to leaning more. I am dying to get back to the water this week to try and nail some front-sides.

Lastly, we have had a ton of on-shore and cross shore winds over the last week. This makes for bigger waves but the water is so freaking choppy, its borderline un-rideable. The swells break all over the place and the wind blows you down the beach very quickly. Lots of paddling and very sore arms after those days!

[Big H]

Need a bigger, heavier board for those days....will cut thru the chop easier.

[CSAWS]

All - quick update. Been surfing a lot and have had some really good action on the SE coast on NC...its been awesome. All the advice I have received from this forum has been super helpful.

I took a big step forward in my own surfing and bought a new board. Before I get bombarded with comments saying I should not have done that (lol), I have to say, I spent a lot of time thinking about this decision and trying to be very realistic in my ability to surf. All that said, I ultimately felt like it was time for me to try a new board and migrate away from my big blue beast (10' soft top).

I ended up getting a 9-6 Stewart RPM long board. Great board and VERY different from my soft top. So I finally got to get on the water with it today. I mean there is a serious difference in this surf board, which I am cool with.

Conditions today: 7' swells with a 30 knot off-shore wind direction - (that was interesting getting gusts so strong you get knocked over sitting on your board!)

The Good: learned the general paddling balance point but still need some work on fine tuning the absolute best place to paddle on this board. I was able to get out through some big surf and move the board around pretty quickly on the backside of the break. the nose tends to sink way quicker than on my big blue but I figured out I need to back a little bit more to keep the nose slightly out of the water. Mission accomplished on paddling, I just need more time to fine tune. other good stuff...was able to get in position on the peaks and paddle well enough to have a decent shot at catching these big waves.

The Bad: was unable to catch lots of waves but I honestly didn't expect to catch a bunch, given its my first time on the board. I had a problem swinging my legs all the way through on my pop-up to get good foot position but again, I think its more time and in smaller sets to get the pop-up working on this board. I felt reasonably balanced but just could not get off the lip and get to my feet in my "normal" form.

The Ugly. holy crap my arms were sore. I need to really learn how to paddle this twig more efficiently. also basically not getting on my feet was a bit of downer but my expectations were very low, given my first time out with this board.

bottom line, I feel like I did when I first started surfing. had a ton of fun, had very tired arms when done and had very little success catching waves. I think this new board well get easier for me when I spend more time with it on the water and will ultimately make me better. I feel great about the board and am looking forward to getting better at riding it!

Thanks for reading and I welcome any and all comments!

[oldmansurfer]

don't blame the board. I think perhaps it is good to get a new board but not go out first in 7 foot waves. Could you ride the soft top board in those conditions? So you got a solid board which will be more difficult to paddle than the soft top. You also got a shorter board which is once again going to make it more difficult to paddle. Now you are thinking you need to be more back on the board which is going to make it more difficult to paddle.