What to do when someone drowns (link)

[drowningbitbybit]

A little bit about how not to drown yourself, and what to do when someone else does...

http://magicseaweed.com/news/drowning-w ... ario/6551/

[oldmansurfer]

I am not sure how that all translates to others but it's good advice. It would be great if every surfer learned surf rescue and CPR. Most importantly is try not to be the one needing saving

[drowningbitbybit]

Yeah, I thought this was one of the better pieces on the subject, particularly because its from a surfers point of view. I thought the advice that dealt with "don't worry about B... just get on with doing A... doesn't matter if C happens while you're doing it..." was useful - I think we'd all stop when we heard the ribs crack

[oldmansurfer]

Really the problem is can you remember all this stuff when you need to? I am not sure if I would be able to but probably the adrenalin will help me think and I have taken a few CPR classes over the years.

[drowningbitbybit]

Really the problem is can you remember all this stuff when you need to? I am not sure if I would be able to but probably the adrenalin will help me think and I have taken a few CPR classes over the years.

Yeah, I've taken a few courses over the years at a variety of levels, and the times its been even slightly helpful, I've been a gibbering moron
So "forget about all that, just do this" is a good bit of advice

Pretty certain my "getting someone else out the water" skills could do with a brush up
Might be time to take another course...

[oldmansurfer]

Your typical surfer knows the waves and the currents and has a floatation device (surfboard) handy. Where I live lots of surfers do rescues without training. If they were unconscious or something then maybe a surfer would have difficulty. I am not sure what to do with an unconscious person in the water but try to get them to the beach as quickly as possible. How to do that is another question. Put them on your surfboard and wrap the leash around them to hold them there? Maybe wrap your leash around their chest under their arms and drag them in? This would be interesting information. How to bring in an unconscious victim to the beach with a surfboard.

[dtc]

Your typical surfer knows the waves and the currents and has a floatation device (surfboard) handy. Where I live lots of surfers do rescues without training. If they were unconscious or something then maybe a surfer would have difficulty. I am not sure what to do with an unconscious person in the water but try to get them to the beach as quickly as possible. How to do that is another question. Put them on your surfboard and wrap the leash around them to hold them there? Maybe wrap your leash around their chest under their arms and drag them in? This would be interesting information. How to bring in an unconscious victim to the beach with a surfboard.

Dont wrap your leash around them - you need to ensure you can still control your board if all goes wrong, the last thing you want is being hit by a wave, your board disappearing, the rescuee falling off, you 50yards from your board in perhaps big seas. Always keep yourself safe first - there are heaps of people drowned trying to rescue others, noble in a way but never put yourself in more danger than you have to (ie keep yourself leashed to your board).

The official steps for an unsconscious person are

- Place hand up on the front rail of a fins-up board (ie turn your board upside down, put the patient's arm over the top of the top rail).
• Secure hand (grab their hand/arm in the part where its over the top of the rail).
• Roll board towards rescuer, dragging patient onto deck of the board. (turn board right way up, dragging patient onto the board/sliding board under them)
• Secure patient. (make sure they are stable - not tie them on with your leash)
• Lay on top of patient towards the tail of the board.
• Slide up the patient and attempt to paddle.
• Signal for assistance

Another advantge of a big/longboard - try doing the above with a 5ft9 high performance shortboard!

[oldmansurfer]

Thanks. Is there a video of this? At least I have an Idea now what to do. But the caution about the big surf and your board.....well if you need your board to survive then you should consider not going out. The odds are much greater that you will be separated from your board in big surf and if you will die without it plan on dying.

[jaffa1949]

Surf Life Saving Australia has been working with lots of surfers around the coast to introduce life saving skills to the general surfer. Many many rescues in Australia are done by non SLSA members
So many newbies are out depending on their leash to save them and a lot s the olde cohort of surfers are in a range of people at risk of cardiac arrest.
Not every beach in Australia is patrolled so a number of questions need to be asked beyond rescue....
How many of the readers have basic first aid skills? and a decent first aid kit?
How competent are you at CPR ? I've asked this before, pretty much a non reply event before!
Surfers in many countries have demonstrated their courage willingness to perform rescues even during shark attacks. Are you one that has the skill and courage to stand up and help?

[dtc]

Damn, I forgot to put the link in, whcih is actually from the very course that Jaffa mentions (this is only a short brochure but hits the key points as I put above).

http://www.surfersrescue247.com.au/imag ... e%20V3.pdf

In terms of being separated from the board, I totally agree but... remember that saving someone is not the same as being out surfing. You may have done any or all of the following:

- paddled really hard for a distance to reach them
- been pounded by waves in the impact zone (where most people will be injured) for quite a while
- wrestled a heavy person around in the moving water
- be totally full of adrenaline
- be almost at the end of your session before having done all of the above
- having to deal with paddling two people, one perhaps unconscious or panicking

So you might be perfectly fine being separated from your board if surfing normally, but in the circumstances you are over exerting.

Also, its possible you are out over your head, so to speak, and relying on your leash - but if you are there to rescue someone, perhaps some leniency can be given.

In any event, rule no 1 is dont put yourself in danger. 2 drowned people is never better than 1. And, remember, on your board (or with some form of floation device) you are much more able to rescue someone than not on your board. So keeping your board near you is important all around.

In the brochure I linked they suggest putting the leg rope on the patient sometimes; but those circumstances are limited eg the person is conscious, you cant do what you want to do/position yourself properly because the leash is too short (another reason not to surf shortboards...). Personally, being totally for self preservation, I might just put the leash around my upper arm

[jaffa1949]

Please be aware!
In all life saving courses it is also emphasied that a person who is drowning can quite often be in a severe panicked state and try to use the rescuer as a flotation device, to the harm of both.
Good reason to know your stuff, you need to be calm and reassured, even better, if several surfers can do the rescue.
Local lifeguards often offer courses about rescue techniques, CPR and general first aid.

[oldmansurfer]

That is really great info. WOW!! I always wondered what to do with an unconscious person. I usually surf alone so not likely to find myself in the position but I have spent so much of my life in the ocean I know it may happen yet. I took Junior lifesaving course long ago when I was a kid but hey never said what to do with a surfboard or two. Very good. I have an idea how to get them on the board and in. I should make everyone else look at this info so they can save me if I need it

[carmelite]

From personal experience, I would not advise transferring your leash to the drowning individual. In my case, I was on the beach when I saw a man panicking in the water, in the impact zone (swimmer, tourist, out of shape, etc.). I grabbed a friend's boogie board (no fins) and went out to him. When I reached him, I unleashed and passed him the board, assuming I could paddle him in (basically holding the side rail while swimming him in). He was so panicked that when he got the board he literally pushed me back, keeping me from holding on--basically fighting me for his survival. There was no calming him and as the next set came in, we were separated. He eventually rolled into shore, clinging for dear life to a board that was tangled around him and I was left to negotiate the swim in. Luckily for me, another surfer was close by, saw it all, came over, and we just went in together--I'm sure I'd have been fine though. The man I helped was very nice, and very apologetic for what had happened--I'd say he was shocked by his behavior in a dangerous situation, and quite embarrassed. I'll never forget the sheer terror on his face, and the aggressiveness he displayed while in a panic. In hindsight, short of punching him out, I'm not sure what I could've done to calm him (not sure that smacking around a drowning victim actually helps). I do know I won't ever pass the leash again--board maybe...leash, hell no!

[oldmansurfer]

For myself I have an idea what I can swim in and what I can't. Generally if I can't swim in a surf condition the other person is totally lost even with a board and I would not be likely to go try to save them. I am not sure what I would do in treacherous conditions but figure most likely the other person won't make it because I am going to be careful to try not to kill myself. I wrote previously about a time I saved 2 guys after surfing for an hour. The first one I put on my board and gave him the leash then swam out to get the other guy.

[carmelite]

Oldmansui--were those guys freaking out, or relatively calm? I'm always interested to know how other people handle impromptu rescues. Very cool that you could swim in the other guy! The guy I helped easily outweighed me (something that wasn't obvious from the sand as only his head was visible, and that barely) and even though the waves that day were well within my swimming abilities, I know there is no way I could have swam this out of control guy in without some kind of flotation. Respect to you for being able to get someone in that way...that can't be easy.

[oldmansurfer]

They weren't too bad but I talked to them first to get an idea and really I didn't need the board. here is what I posted previously....

Back when I was just out of high school one of my friends managed to get a new surfboard. It was the latest design a "stinger", something I had only heard about and not seen till then. Here it was and I had no clue how he got the board since he had no money as far as I knew. I didn't press him for an answer as to how he got it since I really didn't want to hear it figuring he had done some kind of shady deal. But my friend knew I wanted to try the board out and see how it worked so he offered to let me try it out one day at Kealia Landing.



I surfed on it for about an hour and then decided I wanted my board back so I went in and waited on the beach for my friend to come in. The board was ok but I still preferred my own board. While I was waiting I saw a guy running down the beach from the far side of the beach. I started worrying that maybe this was his board and my friend stole it so I made up my mind that if that was the case I would just hand over the board. As he gets closer I hear him yelling at me and I think Oh my gosh it is his board so I kind of hold it out away from my body so he can take it easily but he stops by me and catches his breath a little and says his friend is drowning and and needs help while pointing down the beach to the far side. I guess he was so out of breath from running that I couldn't understand what he was yelling as he ran. I look down at the far side of the beach and there are 4 people in the water so I say "Looks like someone else is already out there helping your friend." He responds "Those guys don't know what they are doing. Come on! Help out my friend he's drowning" motioning me with his arm to follow him and then he runs down the beach so I follow him. At about a third of the way back to where his friend was the guy got completely winded so I continued on by myself.



By the time I get there, there are only 2 people out in the water so I jump in and paddle out. One was outside the break and the other just inside of the break. I could not tell which one was having problems so when I got to where they could hear me I yelled "Which one of you is having problems?" The guy closest to me, a fit looking haole guy says "Me,Me,Me, I am!" So I put him on my surfboard and start pushing him in. There was a slight current going out right there but I was a strong enough swimmer to overcome that even pushing the board in and swimming behind it. I figure that is why he got into trouble this slight current was more than he could handle. He starts yelling at me "We're not getting closer to the shore!" I tell him calmly "We are." He says "No we aren't. We're hardly moving." I told him to relax and we were getting closer and that he was on the board so he wouldn't drown even if I did. Then I hear the other guy yelling "Help! Help!" So I ask the guy I am pushing in if the other guy was having problems too? He says "Yeah. I swam out to help him and got a cramp in my leg." I screamed "Why didn't you tell me?" Then calmed down and said "I have to leave you and go help that other guy. Just hang on to the board and I will come back and get you once I help the other guy." He was screaming at me that he didn't want to die and that he was going to drown. I pointed out that he had the board and He could float till someone else came for him if I drowned.



I swam out to the other guy who was a big Hawaiian guy. He seemed OK and because he was big he floated well so I asked him if he was in real trouble or just tired. He said he was tired so I told him I would take him in through the surf. I asked if he could hold his breath and he said he could so I told him that we were going to get hit by waves but if he could hold his breath it would be OK. He agreed so I proceeded to tow him into the breaking surf. The waves were only about 2 to 3 feet in that area and not big enough to pound us too hard but would help us get in. I watched and when a wave was coming I would tell him to take a deep breath and then as it hit I would push him up as high as I could and the wave would push him in then I would go get him and make sure he was OK then repeat this till we were well inside the break. By then my friend who had seen me go down the beach came down to find out what was up and paddled out to me. I told him what the problem was and he offered to take the big local guy in on the board he had (my board) so I swam back to my first victim and helped him get the rest of the way in.



The guy who had swam out to help the Hawaiian guy disappeared without saying a word once we got to the beach. I went to the big local guy and asked if he was OK and offered to go call an ambulance or anyone else if he needed. He said he didn't need anything else and that he was so thankful that I helped him, he wanted to give me money for it. I told him not to worry and that if I was in trouble and he could help me I am sure he would have so don't worry about it. He kept saying "Thank you , thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you....etc." I decided to leave before he got his breath and tried to force me to take money so I asked if he was OK again and he said he was and endless thank you's after that and I got my board back from my friend and we went back to the surf.

[oldmansurfer]

The first guy I handed the board to and the second guy I swam under and up from behind to grab him after telling him I would do that so I didn't freak him out. He was huge and his own floatation device

[carmelite]

Awesome story!

My guy was huge and anything but his own flotation device! I lived in Hawaii (Oahu) for ten years doing contract work at Barbers point and Pearl Harbor...not surprised at all to hear how much calmer the big Hawaiian guy was
I picture him laying on his back, chilling out past the break, no clue how to get back in, but no panic.

[oldmansurfer]

He was so grateful to have someone helping him that he was going to cooperate in anyway he could. He was your typical humble Hawaiian guy. No bs just him. I know a hundred guys like that. They would just meet you and invite you home to eat with them even though their family was poor and could barely afford to feed themselves because that is way they did things. He thought that he was going to float off out of sight before someone came to help him (and knew what to do) and was pretty sure he was going to die. It's fortunate that I was waiting on the beach when he came by because I had some training in lifesaving and knew this beach inside out. It's good to have a floatation device to hand them so they don't try to climb up on you but if you don't then dive under them and come up behind them and grab them over the shoulder and across the chest. Be prepared to fight them. We trained at this in the pool. One of us would jump in the pool and pretend like we were drowning then the other guys would swim up to them and attempt to get them under control and bring them to the side of the pool. I was really good at keeping the other guys from saving me if they didn't do it right and in fact I had to bring one guy up from the bottom of the pool because I pushed him down there with my foot when it was my turn to be the victim.