Sore shoulders and feet plus a couple of questions

[Hanwyz]

Hi!
I'm new to surfing, but have definitely gotten the bug (not that I've managed to stand up yet, but oh well)

Yesterday I was out for my first lesson in about 10 years. The waves, for me, felt pretty intense - looks like they were about 3-4 feet. I was getting slammed about all over the place, even when I was just trying to get through them (no, I haven't been taught to duck dive yet). My arms were giving in by the end of the session, which I'm thinking is exhaustion from being weak, and from the constant white water and larger green waves, even close in to the shore.

First question: I ended up with agonizing pain in both feet - outsides near my little toes, that came on about 6 hours after the end of the session. I can't remember hitting anything, but can anyone think of anything that could cause it?

Second question: how can I settle the pain in my shoulders? It really rather hurts, but I am pretty certain it's muscle fatigue. I'm guessing heat and taking it easy for a couple of days, then working on developing strength?

Third question: we're being taught to get to knees before standing up. Some places say that is a very bad idea. What are people's opinions please? The straight pop up looks really tricky, even on dry land - so should I keep practicing it on dry land, and stick to body boarding in the water until I have the hang of it? Or will getting to my knees first be ok for now?

Last two questions that kind of go into one:
None of my friends are interested in surfing, so I have no one to go with. If there are other surfers in the water, is it safe for me to head in to practice? I'm planning on getting a couple more surf lessons before that though. Second part of the question is; I'm in the north east of England, near Tynemouth. Is there anyone else from round there that might like a surf buddy? Once I'm up to a reasonable ish standard anyway (able to catch green water etc) so I don't annoy anyone? I'd love to meet people and surf with people, rather than just on my own.

I hope that these questions are ok, I'm wanting to learn properly, preferably without irritating anyone etc.

[Beginner77]

I'm new to surfing too, so am looking forward to reading replies and learning things. I initially had 3 beginner's lessons at separate schools, which were fun. I then had 3 full days of learning at one school, which was by far the best instruction I've had and it got me hooked, so I've now rented twice since then at my local beach and am planning on going down there as often as I can.

Regarding the aches and pains, I do a lot of different sports, and I always find that new muscles ache with new sports, but if you do those sports regularly (or find some exercises that replicate certain motions) then you can prevent this. With the other sports that I do, the aches and pains settled down once I was a regular, although obviously even at this point you know you've done something the day before, which is perfectly normal. I suspect even Mo Farah gets an ache in his legs after running. More severe pains for a few days though normally settle once your body gets used to the new activity. If you can't surf regularly, I guess practising pop ups and doing some swimming would help? Warming up and stretching beforehand can also help with all sports of course.

I've no idea about the foot pain I'm afraid. The only similar thing I've had is from SUP, but that's cause you're stood for ages, unlike surfing. I presume it's a flat sandy bottom where you learn and you're not hobbling around on pebbles?

For getting through waves, have a go ducking under them. I was never shown this, but it seems better for bigger waves than standing upright and getting a beating. I find I can pull the board through next to me as I do this.

Pop-Up: Interestingly, I've been taught lots of different pop up techniques in the various lessons I've had. My wife and I both struggled with all these methods of getting to our feet until on that three day course we were shown a really neat and quick way of getting up from our knees - problem solved. That method was to keep your hands on the board at all times and sweep your front leg under your chest; once stable in that position just bring the back leg up and stand up. I guess the standard quick pop up you see the pros do is quicker and better though. I've managed it on land by separating it down into two stages: first, hands by chest and pushing up into a sort of Yoga pose, and then only when I've done that popping up to my feet. I'm struggling to get my feet far enough forward though - a question for experienced guys: is getting your feet far enough forward just practise?...

[Beginner77]

One other thing, like you I want to have fun without getting in anyone's way and I fully intend to learn as much etiquette as I can. However, mistakes happen, especially when you're learning and are 'eyeballs out' focusing on every tiny thing. I've been quite concerned reading through forums and You Tube comments, because there seem to be an awful lot of very unforgiving, rude and aggressive surfers out there. Could anyone advise as to whether this is the unrepresentative mumblings of a bunch of irritable anti-social keyboard warriors, or is this just what surfing is like out there in the real world?! I'm worried I'll accidentally get in someone's way and "sorry" won't be enough. It goes further than this too: many of these people aren't just worried about lapses of etiquette, they seem to generally hate beginners and people who don't live near the beach they surf at (not possible for many of us, and logically not possible for anyone at more than one or two beaches if you think about it!). My local spot's listing on an online surfing website is page after page of rants about non-locals and beginners, some really quite nasty. Does anyone have any comment on this? I've not seen it with other sports. I'm currently in the white water with other beginners and families etc, and we're all there for fun and most people seem quite friendly, and I'm starting to wonder if this nice atmosphere will vanish once I progress a bit and get 'out back'.

[Oldie]

Hi,

I am also a beginner with just ~100 sessions behind me; and a few comments from my experience so far.

Unless you have physical limitations, avoid the Knee Popup if you surf in the North Sea. This may work on slowly peeling longboard waves, but it takes a lot of time. You need to get your popup automated fast and fluently, and daily exercises help. I am doing 20 per day for three years now on dry land, and it does help. An in-between move could be one where you position your pack foot first, or google "Aussie Sprinter". However, all of these are slower moves, and in the North Sea you don't have much time. And getting rid of wrong moves is more difficult to learn them correctly from the start.

In order to avoid pain, you must be in good shape. Training your shoulders and core are important if you want to avoid a session where you are wasted after 30 mins. Swimming helps, pushups, pullups etc as well. You must constantly work on this or surf more often. Or both There are a lot of very good guides on youtube. Ensure you work on both strength and flexibility. Also, spend some time on warming up before the session.

Strange thing with your feet. Try to be aware what your do with your feet. Often beginners kick around a lot and let them hang outside the board. Maybe your are hiting something or kicking yourself. Try to keep your feet together and on the board.

With regards to agressiveness, some spots have a lot of bad localism, others less so. These are idiots that behave as if they own the beach, and as if no beginner has the right to be there. Besides them beeing idiots, it is partly a result of a growing sport and lineups that get fuller and fuller, too. There are only two ways to deal with it - be friendly and/or avoid the spots where they are. But you can encounter agressive reactions from otherwise normal people if you get in their way. As a surfer you invest a lot of time and work to position yourselves for the right wave, and if then someonle else destroys it for you because they don't know how to behave, you are not happy. So be conscious of the rules and where you are in relation to others. If you make a mistake, apologize.

[oldmansurfer]

I have never had any of those problems. The shoulder thing is common among other beginners building strength and endurance would be good and limiting your time surfing at first would also help. At some point you if you are like lots of beginners then as your surf session goes on you catch less and less waves because your arms are more and more tired. At some point it is really not worth staying out trying and failing to catch waves. If my shoulders get sore from overuse I ice them for 15 to 20 minutes and if they are really bad then I may wait another 15 to 20 minutes and ice them again for another 15 to 20 minutes. But my shoulders don't get sore from surfing however it is the same muscles that I use for surfing. When I first learned to surf I was so fit my arms may have gotten tired but not sore. I quit surfing for 12 years and restarted but I knew I was in such bad physical shape that I did shoulder exercises for 6 months before I attempted surfing again.

I haven't ever heard of the foot thing. If it doesn't go away see a doctor.

As far as the popup goes there are people who teach surfing here that can answer better than me. I vote for no intermediate however not all people are made the same and it may be that some people need an intermediate form in popup. My problem popping up has been getting my feet back enough. It seems to me to be much easier to get my feet forward. It may be because of your intermediate get to the knees thing it makes you stand too far back and especially if you are just riding small whitewater then being back on the board makes you stall out.

You should go where there are lifeguards till you meet some surfers. You will meet them surfing. I knew all the surfers before I started surfing so I never had to meet them. I grew up and live on a small Pacific island. Hopefully you can meet and hang out with someone who is learning also since then you could share the same breaks.

[Beginner77]

Thanks for the replies. Regarding the pop up, yes, even though I can now just about do it on land, for some odd reason when I catch a wave I automatically revert to the knee first technique! I need to be more disciplined about practising at home and then hopefully that'll become my automatic method.

I forgot to say hanwyz: I'd gladly hook up to practise and learn as my wife never comes surfing with me and as such I always have to surf on my own, but I'm based down south unfortunately.

[waikikikichan]

I ended up with agonizing pain in both feet - outsides near my little toes, that came on about 6 hours after the end of the session. I can't remember hitting anything, but can anyone think of anything that could cause it?

Were you on a Soft top or Sponge soft board ? The pain might be a bit of "Rug Burn" or "Turf Toe". With out a smooth pop up, you might be dragging or scraping your foot and the sponge deck catches your for a split second. Or you might be unconsciously trying to "grab" the deck with your toes to hold on from falling.

[kookRachelle]

If you are getting up on your knees a lot before a full pop up, you could be pressing the tops of your feet down into the board. I don't know, just a thought as to what could be causing the pain.

Personally, I would avoid getting up on your knees as it just enforces bad habits from what I've heard (I'm also a beginner). Now, that's not to say you have to pop up as quickly as possible only to fall and eat sh!t.... arch your back and take your time getting up if you want, but I wouldn't just stop at the knees.

As for the shoulders, yep. Heat or ice, whatever feels better for you. I usually paddle out a little past the lineup and take a 5 minute rest or so until I feel fresh again. Once you begin to get weak, do yourself a favor and head in for a while to avoid injury.

If you're on a longboard, as most beginners are, you won't be able to duck dive. This is the most frustrating thing for me, but I'm starting to do a turtle roll - look it up. If you time it right it works very well.

I agree with going out when there are lifeguards, but if there are other surfers there, why not introduce yourself and make friends? A great piece of advice I got from a friend - surf with someone who is at your level or slightly better. People who are not quite at your level will drag you down, and people who are much better than you will make you feel hopeless haha!

[kookRachelle]

I ended up with agonizing pain in both feet - outsides near my little toes, that came on about 6 hours after the end of the session. I can't remember hitting anything, but can anyone think of anything that could cause it?

Were you on a Soft top or Sponge soft board ? The pain might be a bit of "Rug Burn" or "Turf Toe". With out a smooth pop up, you might be dragging or scraping your foot and the sponge deck catches your for a split second. Or you might be unconsciously trying to "grab" the deck with your toes to hold on from falling.

I got this when I started finally getting pop ups - kept dragging my back toes and they got scraped up!

[dtc]

btw, the reason the 'first to knees' pop up is taught at surf schools is because its much easier for people to learn in the space of 1-2 hours than a proper pop up. And the school just wants you to have the joy of standing up and maybe riding a wave. The vast majority of people do one or two lessons and have fun and do it as a holiday activity to amuse for a few hours and never do it again - so long term skill development is much less a priority than getting people to stand up in whatever way possible.

(that said, if you have mobility or injury issues etc, I guess it could be a way to ensure you keep surfing)

Being exhausted and sore is a given when you start to learn - after all, how many things do you do in your normal daily activities that have any relationship to the movements you do in surfing?

[YungGrom]

I usually get sore feet from walking to much when surfing as my local is a shallow beachie. When Im out back or paddling out back I can just touch the bottom with my toes, putting heaps of pressure on them trying to walk outback over and over resulting in sore feet... Just hop on your board and paddle. I imagine the same thing will be happening to you when your walking out to catch whitewash and you are using your tip toes to get out instead of paddling.

[waikikikichan]

btw, the reason the 'first to knees' pop up is taught at surf schools is because its much easier for people to learn in the space of 1-2 hours than a proper pop up. And the school just wants you to have the joy of standing up and maybe riding a wave. The vast majority of people do one or two lessons and have fun and do it as a holiday activity to amuse for a few hours and never do it again - so long term skill development is much less a priority than getting people to stand up in whatever way possible.

Agreed, at Waikiki beach we asked tourist where they're from. If they're from a landlocked state ( plus more heavier set and less agile ) and and probably never surf again, it's "easier" to get them up on their knees so they can feel the sensation of surfing. If they plan to "become" a surfer, then teaching them the correct pop up is more time consuming and they probably fall back or to the side more, but they won't develop a bad habit as much.

[Beginner77]

btw, the reason the 'first to knees' pop up is taught at surf schools is because its much easier for people to learn in the space of 1-2 hours than a proper pop up. And the school just wants you to have the joy of standing up and maybe riding a wave. The vast majority of people do one or two lessons and have fun and do it as a holiday activity to amuse for a few hours and never do it again - so long term skill development is much less a priority than getting people to stand up in whatever way possible.

Agreed, at Waikiki beach we asked tourist where they're from. If they're from a landlocked state ( plus more heavier set and less agile ) and and probably never surf again, it's "easier" to get them up on their knees so they can feel the sensation of surfing. If they plan to "become" a surfer, then teaching them the correct pop up is more time consuming and they probably fall back or to the side more, but they won't develop a bad habit as much.

That's interesting, thanks. So as a keen windsurfer who wants to learn to surf and who is also fit and agile, in my beginner's lessons I should perhaps have been taught to pop up straight away.... I guess this is inevitable in group lessons, which is all I've had so far. What I need to do now is get the knee stage out of my instinctive memory, because even though I've practised the pop up on land many times, I still fall back to the knee version every time! On Saturday I even went back to the beach to try a few pop ups and then straight back out to try it on a wave and what happened? yep.

I've had this experience in other sports too, and I know one can unlearn things with time and practise. This particularly applies in my main sport of motor racing, where instincts learnt on the road or in different types of car often need to be changed or even completely reversed.

[Hanwyz]

Thanks for all the replies!

I definitely feel like shoulders and pecs just need strengthing. By the end of my two hour lesson, I couldn't catch a single wave, and could hardly paddle.

My feet hurt less, so I'm wondering if that was bruises. I had several rides where I was half hanging off the board, so possibly whacked it on the board. Just using the surf shop beginner foam board things.

I'm going to stick wholly in the fairly shallow whitewater next time, practice catching the waves, and try and get the pop up right. I'll keep practicing the pop up on land as well. I'm considering getting a balance board that is designed for surfers which apparently is good for practicing popups on.

[waikikikichan]

By the end of my two hour lesson, I couldn't catch a single wave, and could hardly paddle.

So basically you were a sitting duck. What if a big set came rolling through ? What if a surfer was coming at you ? If you couldn't hardly paddle, how could you safely move out of the way quickly ? Be proactive, once you are starting to feel it's a struggle ( palming the water instead of fingers in first ), time to go in or rest in the channel . Or hopefully the lesson was broken down into two 1 hour sessions ? In Waikiki, we get tourist trying to bargain , "well the other guy does 2-hour lessons" , we reply "Look, most people are not going to even make the 45 minute mark".

I'll keep practicing the pop up on land as well. I'm considering getting a balance board that is designed for surfers which apparently is good for practicing popups on.

"Apparently" ? Ahh......Nooooo. Unless you like smashed fingers and flipping over backwards. If you go buy one of those devices, also invest in a nice helmet. Balance boards are great to fine tune techniques and skills for the advancing surfer, not for beginners.

[dtc]

Learning the pop up doesnt require fancy devices. Its sort of like learning to drive a manual car - at first it makes no sense,then you bunny hop and stall and crunch, then you get it and then you never think about it again.

There are some common errors in the pop up and wkk posted a video the other day with some good tips

my tips are keep your hands low on the board. Like lower rib or belly button. and look up (not at your feet, the nose of the board, the huge drop beneath you). And do it quickly - there is a natural tendency to try and slow things down, because its all unusual and different and you are off balance etc. But slower is bad.

Those seem to be the major errors I see beginners making (I surf on a beach that a surf school uses, so get to see the same errors over and over. Its a good learning experience for me as well)

[Oldie]

.... I'm considering getting a balance board that is designed for surfers which apparently is good for practicing popups on.

A balance board has its uses, especially at the beginning just to get a better feeling for your balance again - you can also do some other exercises on it that can be interesting like squats or pushups or, as you go along, try to move around a bit. But for doing a popup it is very dangerous.

[Hanwyz]

Ok - so perhaps get a balance board in a few months, but don't try popping up on it!

I was struggling to paddle, but I was shallow enough that I was still walking out with my board, so feet on the floor. I was struggling with the big sets, but that was because we were shown how to get through little white water, not large 4 foot waves that had only just started breaking at the point where the others were at a perfect level for us. The lessons were done with two roughly 15 minute beach sessions, with the rest in the water. It was seriously crowded (I had to deliberately wipe out multiple times because I couldn't turn fast enough on my knees to get away from a group of kids or others that suddenly turned up in front of me) - but we were keeping out of the actual lineup because of being beginners. There isn't really a channel at the beach I'm at - there's breaks all down the beach, only broken up by the two rips. Given I'm avoiding ending up outside, I don't really want to end up in the rips yet...

Thank you for all the advice though, I really appreciate it! Got two more lessons this weekend, really hoping by the end of them that I'm able to get to my feet consistently - at least in the white water if not the green waves

[Beginner77]

Incidentally, if you want to develop balance when standing, then flat water SUP is great. I SUP regularly as it does wonders for my bad back and I have a lake on my way home from work. It's also a nice fitness alternative to the running and cycling that I do, firstly for a change but also because it gives my legs a break. The hours I've spent doing that have definitely helped me with learning to surf, specifically perfecting pivot (aka 'step back) turns, which teach you to have good fore/aft balance, teach you what difference this makes to turning and also teach you to balance with your feet pointing sideways - it's all very relevant. Furthermore, you don't stand for seconds on a SUP board like surfing in white water, you stand for hours on end. Obviously I'd recommend something beyond the super stable beginners boards, which a drunk horse could stand on, and I'd also recommend going beyond just paddling along - try step back turns, a few tricks etc. You can even practise pop ups on a SUP board. Whilst everything else about surfing is new to me, as soon as I'm on my feet I'm in familiar territory, so it's certainly helped me.

[saltydog]

I'm at around 100 session mark after 2 years... still an advanced beginner. I'd also vote for learning to pop up properly. When I started out, i practiced popping up on my surfboard at home. Basically I had my 9' log sitting on top of a 8' costco wavestorm which was spanning between two step stools. That made my log to be just a little unstable to feel more realistic than putting it on the floor or a bed. If you don't have your own board, you can place a piece of plywood on some folded bath towels and practice popping up (with your socks on to avoid splinters.) Balance board is good for standing on as well as skateboarding to get used to the board feel. I wouldn't pop up on those however. When I was trying to switch to popping up without using toes, I went back to this setup and practiced at home until I got to shake off the old habit. Staying in the whitewater is also a great way to practice pop up without wearing out paddling muscles.

As for surfing alone, I'm pretty much on my own unless my kids are with me. But I surf a decently gentle point break and usually I see a few others in water. These days I try to avoid the crowd so sometimes I'm the only one out there, so on those days I'd stay a little more conservative and not paddle out too far if there is any rip. That is, I'll try to stay within the distance I can swim back if I ever lose my board.

I used to get sore from upper arms to mid back and often the down legs as well. I also got jammed fingers and toes every session. Sore Muscle Rub by Badger Balm, or actually any balm from them magically shortened the healing time.