Should I be able to duck dive this board?

[jasedrummer]

Hi everyone,

So been surfing for 4years now, changed from a minimal to a fish about 15 months ago, which I can paddle easier then the mal and catch plenty of waves with.....also loving the ease of making turns on it.

My issue is I seem to still be struggling to duck dive it, which is a it frustrating as I could actually get out the back on bigger days with my mal by turtle rolling it. On the fish I have been persevering trying to duck dive it instead, with limited success...I'm noticing it more now we are out of flat summer spells...

The board has 40 liters of volume and I'm 6ft and weigh 160 lbs with no wetsuit on.

I've looked at plenty of vids and advice, but still can't seem to sink it very easily. I've tried pushing the nose down hard with straight arms and even used my foot on the tail to sink it deeper, but it seems to be very buoyant and comes back to the surface too quickly....
I've also adjusted my timing to see if that made much difference, but I either rise ahead of the whitewater or in the middle of it. The board does seem very buoyant as even when I come to end of a ride it does not sink under my standing weight....

So....do you think it's down to my lousy technique still and I should persevere with more practice or should I really be moving to a smaller board of say 30 liters volume? I'm reasonably confident I can still paddle something smaller and catch waves on it...

[drowningbitbybit]

Obviously technique and volume will be the major issues, but with a bigger volume or a wider board can adjust your technique a bit, and some of the things you need to change are a bit counterintuitive.

The big volume and wide nose will not only pop back up quicker, but will also catch the push of the wave so that you don't go far enough forward. So, oddly, what you might finds helps is to get the board down low in the water a little earlier and keep the board horizontal as the wave goes past. Then push the tail down a bit, which will pop the nose back up. Doing this feels slower and less efficient, but will get a bigger volume board under a wave. Obviously, you won't be going quite as deep as a "proper" duckdive at first, so dont try it on big days (time for a turtle roll), but combined with good timing, it'll get you under most waves.

[dtc]

I have a completely unscientific and unproven theory that you can duck dive a board to approximately 4 times the depth the board is underwater when you are sitting on it in the line up. ie if you are sitting on your board and it sinks down 1ft (just above bellybutton, say), then you should be able to duck dive it to about 4ft underwater (with good technique etc). Conversely, if it only sinks 3 inches, then you basically can't duck dive it.

4 times may be too high, it may be 3.5 times or something like that. And there is a limit - you probably can't get a board 8ft underwater from a duckdive because your body (not the board) is too bouyant. And, as DBB says, the shape of the board will affect this as well - wider noses are harder than pointy ones. So an unproven theory with some assumptions.

Anyway, in the end its just a function of the volume of the board as against your weight.

It sounds like you can get the board underwater but it wont stay underwater long enough. As DBB said (I think we are saying the same thing), try and get your body as far forward for as long as possible - focus on keeping the nose under and facing down/horizontal. Sort of like those 'cheat' duck dives, where you bring your knees up to mid board and then just lean on the nose

[IB_Surfer]

Not sure about the liters of volume, but I can't duckdive my fish because it's 6'3 x22" x 3"
In big surf I will duckdive it at most a few inches, then when the wave hits I just do the best I can to duck under then pull up to surface behind. It still drags me back a bit, but since it's my fish I can just paddle fast to get over the next one. Then again, if it's overhead and barreling I am not out on my fish, but have taken it out on big mushy surf plenty of time and don't have a problem under those conditions. Sorry, but if you really want ease of duckdiving you are going to have to go to a shortboard, or a step up.

How much do you weigh? At 200lbs my biggest but still duckdivable board is my 6'8 step-up

[zebroo]

I was taught the following technique at Surf Simply, I haven't had much chance to put it in to practice as I've just bought a shortboard and only taken it out twice, but I was successfully duck diving small waves the first time I took it out (at surf simply I only practiced in the pool with really low volume boards). My new board is 6'2 x 21 x 2 5/8, I am only 5'3 and weigh 116lbs.

Instead of trying to sink the nose first, we were taught to sink the whole board at once. Hands by your shoulders, one foot on the tail. Practice doing this in flat water and just holding the board as far under water as you can, with the deck parallel to the water surface. Balance like this for ten+ seconds. When you can comfortably do this, we were told to 'pull' the board up. The board won't come up, you will go down to meet the board. When you are fully submerged (bar the foot that you hold up), stamp on the tail with the foot that's on the board, so that the nose is pointing up and you will come to the surface.

I hope I've explained this ok! Good luck

[jasedrummer]

Thanks for all the replies! I will definitely see how far it sinks when I'm sat in the lineup next time to test the 4 times theory
I'll also give zebroos flat water test a go too....
In terms of the boards dimensions it's 6'6" x 21 1/4" x 2 11/16" - it's a Fourth speed fish.

At least then I will know one way or another after doing this...I've been working my way down to a shortboard anyway, so maybe the time is near.....will still keep the fish though, it's brilliant for flat summer days.

[drowningbitbybit]

In terms of the boards dimensions it's 6'6" x 21 1/4" x 2 11/16"

Okay, that gives a better picture than 40l.
Yes, you should just about be able to duckdive that, but probably not efficiently under large lumps of whitewater.

[jasedrummer]

Hi everyone......been a while now but I thought I would post an update.....

I tried to persevere with duck diving the fish, but no joy....I think if I was experienced in making good duck dives I could probably get by with it, but for me it was just too buoyant to get me started.

Anyway, so I decided to get a shortboard and settled on a Lost beach buggy 6'0 ft. It's 3/4 the volume of the fish...
Well, it definitely sinks a lot easier than the fish! I just need to work on my technique now....I understand the physical part of the duck dive, I just need to get my timing sorted, especially sinking the tail....

As far as using the shortboard for everything else, I've only tried it in about 2 ft waves so far, just to try and get a better feel for it. Bit strange at first with less foam under the chest when paddling and a bit more wobbly sitting on it, but it didn't take too long to get used to that. One thing it does do is make you concentrate a lot more on better paddling technique...
In terms of catching waves, not too different from the fish, I actually managed to catch one and pop up on my first attempt, which I was quite surprised about! That said, it's going to take me some time to adjust to where I need to be starting to paddle before the wave gets critical, hunting for the peak etc.

I'm feeling a bit like a beginner all over again in way, but not quite as bad as I was expecting!