What the Fish just happened?!

[benjl]

I had a personal surfing breakthrough yesterday which I found surprising. Would love to know whether anyone else has had the same experience?

I've been surfing for 5 months now and my board of choice is my 6'2 fish. It's got decent volume for its size (about 37.5L) and i'm about 70kg so it' great for a beginner. It's got a relatively flat rocker and a bit of volume in the nose.
It was a great step up from my old 7'6 mini mal and helped me progress rapidly with getting out the back for bigger waves and starting to make turns etc.

More recently though, as winter has come and the waves have been a lot bigger and more un-ruly I have struggled more and more with it. The board was only recommended from 1-4 ft and that has really showed when the waves get to that 4-6ft level as it doesn't handle very well at all. Recently on bigger waves i've really struggled with either getting on to the wave (despite paddling hard early) or alternatively getting flipped over if I try to drop in a bit later when the wave is more steep. For my first time ever, I dropped down a 2m face yesterday and the tip of the board dug straight into the wave at the bottom and flipped me! My confidence was shot from getting smashed and flipped every time I tried to drop in late (nose digging in to the wave) so thought my solution would have to be getting a board with more volume to get on the wave earlier rather than later.

That was until I tried my mates board yesterday in the same surf spot and in almost the same conditions as the day earlier when I just struggled for several hours.
The board is 6'3 x 19 1/2 x 2 1/2 so is only 1" narrower than my 6'2 but is much more like a proper shortboard.
I thought this would be the complete wrong type of board to solve my problems but it solved everything!!

I was shocked- I could drop in way later to the point the wave was almost breaking but still be able to get up without the nose digging in to the wave. The pointy nose kind of sliced through the wave and gave me an opening to drop down everytime. The first wave was a clear indicator at how much more agile it was than my fish but by the second and third waves I was just loving it. It could turn sooooo much more easily and I finally got that feeling of being able to carve and whip it around on the wave.
Even on the smaller 1-2ft waves it caught just as easily as my much higher volume 6'2 fish and it didn't paddle that much worse either. Could duck dive way better on it too.
Both boards have the exact same FCS G5 fins so it can't be a fin thing causing the difference either.

I've attached some pictures to show the difference in the boards and how much thinner and more pointed the 6'3 anderson fish is.

Is this strange for a beginner to excel on a more narrow 'shortboard' than something longer / wider??
Anyone else had this happen?

[oldmansurfer]

Well first off WHohooo! Yeah man, you are now a surfer not a wanabe. I have read that one of the problems with taking off is getting your weight over the front of the board. There are a bunch of different ways people do this. One is how peazz does it to shove your head into the nose of your board as you take off. Another is to adjust our weight leaning forward sort of and some may raise their legs to bring that weight forward. I sometimes push the front of my board down in a part way pop up. The point is getting into the wave as soon as you can so you can prepare for the drop better. It is likely the other board has less volume forward which makes it easier to push the nose down the wave face on take off. The floatation helps to get you paddling but works against you pushing the nose down. The narrower tail allows quicker rail to rail turns. That's my guess

[Lebowski]

Extra rocker and less tail volume on the Anderson board will help in hollow waves.

If you have a lot of tail volume with little rocker, the wave will lift the back of the board up higher, causing it to point steeply down. In 'soft' waves this is ok, but in jacking hollow waves it makes for a more difficult take off, and it's easy to end up pearling at the bottom as you say.

[oldmansurfer]

I noticed the second board has more rocker in the nose and tail and this makes the board seem shorter when taking off on a wave which is really good for small steep waves. Even a long board with a lot of tail and nose rocker works like a shorter board. Perhaps Lebowski is right. I have been surfing for so long pearling is a concern but rarely ever happens. It could be just the bottom design of the two boards which account for the difference. The more curve in the bottom the more the board fits the shape of a small steep wave and the easier to keep it from pearling.

[jaffa1949]

It's nice you've put out the balloons to celebrate
Volume is not an answer in itself, how the volume is applied with rail and rocker configuration is the real decider of how board fits into the waves.
No nose and pointed nose with increased nose rocker means less likelihood of pearling and allow steeper take offs the speed of the wave in that position compensates for loss of paddling power. Not all volume high boards paddle well BTW. If they have a sudden wide profile on the rail it acts as pivot in mush but a drag in good surf.
Think about that when you compare the outline of the two boards!
A really good thing here , you may have just found your first "magic" board, as you go through your surfing evolution may you have many

[benjl]

Hey guys- thanks for the replies on this, it was really interesting to read and I think you're all exactly right with the diagnosis!

The beach where I was surfing does often have quite steep and hollow waves but because i've never tried a board with much rocker or anything like a shortboard, I had nothing to compare my 6'2 fish to and thought it was just my own ability letting me down.
When I think about the times that I just struggled for hours and getting constant pearling, it was in steeper / more hollow waves and often felt like the back lifted up and drove the nose in the wave as Lebowski described.
I also sometimes had a hard time trying to get the nose down the wave despite trying to pysically push it down as OldManSurfer mentioned. I would often have the paddle speed and just be sitting on the crest of the wave frantically trying to get the nose down the face and would either not end up getting it down and have the wave roll on by of finally get the nose down and at which point it might be too late / steep and the nose would then pearl. On the smoother style of waves it was fine and could have more consistency with take offs / getting on the wave.

Based on the shape and dimenions of the Anderson board, would you guys say that there would be any advantages of keeping my old fish or would the Anderson board basically do everything better (provided I can handle it)? Would it still be all good on 'smoother' styles of waves?
What wave size would you think it could comfortably handle? Lastly, if my old board was 37.5L what would be your guess at volume of the Anderson?

I had no idea surfing was this complex and how every board was just so different when I first started.
It's been a really interesting journey! (despite only being 5 months) haha

Thanks again for your responses

[drowningbitbybit]

Based on the shape and dimenions of the Anderson board, would you guys say that there would be any advantages of keeping my old fish or would the Anderson board basically do everything better (provided I can handle it)?

What you have there is the beginning of a quiver.
No, the shortboard won't do everything better than the fish - on a small or weak fat day, you'll still want the fish as you simply won't be able to catch the waves on a shortboard.
Most surfers have a bunch of boards and they'll choose the right board for the conditions

[oldmansurfer]

If you are going to be surfing a lot then having multiple boards is a great thing. If you are just a weekend warrior it will probably suit you to use one board mostly. That said I actually have 2 SUP boards, a longboard, a fun gun, a gun, and a short board. (mostly I use the fun gun). At my skill and frequency of surfing it seems to be best to use the one board mostly as they all work differently and I don't have time to learn how to use them all. I used to surf two or three boards before, all shortboards but all different.

[dtc]

Most surfers have a bunch of boards and they'll choose the right board for the conditions

You know you may have gone too far when you have 10 boards and think that one is for waves up to 18 inches, one is for 23 to 36 inches with an offshore wind, another is for slightly hollow right handers, one is for point breaks during winter ...

A 'proper surfer' is one that has enough boards for their partner to continual complain about (a) the space they are taking up and (b) the number of them - and yet you want to buy another one

[benjl]

Haha until last week I had built up 6 surf boards in 5 months!! My girlfriend complained about both points A and B!
- i've also got a 6'10 which I was probably planning on keeping for the smaller / smoother days?
I'm ideally hoping to reduce my quiver to just 2 boards that would cover most days / sizes around here.

What are your opinions of what size waves the Anderson board could handle comfortably up to?

[dtc]

What are your opinions of what size waves the Anderson board could handle comfortably up to?

Best to check the shapers website, if he has one. Keep in mind that if they say 'double overhead', probably 1.5 overhead is comfortable and double is a bit sketchy but doable, and 2.5 overhead is still feasible. At the other end, anyone who says knee high or 1ft for a shortboard is kidding themselves, you are wanting 2ft/waist to chest high probably.

Most 'general' boards can handle at waist high to at least 1.5 overhead beach or point waves; reef waves are a bit more specialist. There are boards, like grovellors and guns, that probably have a more limited range, but they are designed for those specific situations. A shortboard/fish/mini mail/LB can handle most waves.

Not to say that certain boards dont to better in certain situations, but I can surf my flat rockered minimal in 1.5 overhead beach breaks (with some precautions); so a shortboard can certainly do that.

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah when I surf I get so tuned to my boards, I learn to ride everything with them. When I restarted surfing after not surfing for 11 years I surfed a longboard. I have never owned a longboard before but it was really good for an old, out of shape, overweight guy. I surfed knee high waves to triple overhead waves with it. On the larger and smaller waves I am just cruising not usually doing any radical turns but after a while on the in between sized waves I started to get the turns down and after a while I could feel the weight of the board as I whipped it around. That's when I knew I needed another board. I got a fun gun and have been surfing it mostly but I bought a brand new gun for the triple overhead stuff only since I bought it there hasn't been any triple overhead stuff (only double overhead) so the only time I really used it is when I had my fun gun back to the shaper because I dinged the nose really badly. Long ago I had at the most 3 boards but my favorite was the fastest one of the bunch. That board could handle huge surf (30 to 40 foot faces) or waist high surf. The other boards I might take out in larger surf but only if it was a slow break however I liked them for tube riding because they were slower they got tubed much easier. I think you can learn to ride a finless wooden board in lots of different sized waves like Duke Kahanamoku so as you learn to use a particular board you will learn which waves YOU can use it in which won't be the same for everyone.

[drowningbitbybit]

What are your opinions of what size waves the Anderson board could handle comfortably up to?

Anything you could

[benjl]

Tripple Overhead !! Man, at the moment even 6ft clean lippy waves look huge to me and certianly have enough power to smash me round under the water when they break. I couldn't imagine what double to tripple over head would be like!!

The anderson website didn't say a lot about the boards and because I don't even know which model it is exactly I can't pin point it.
Based on what you guys have said about even general short boards though, the anderson should be able to handle 6ft quite comfortably which I am looking for. Unlike my other fish which was only recommended in 1-4ft and just scares me in anything 4ft +!

I just can't wait to use it again this weekend and see what it is like in other conditions on different beaches!

[dtc]

You are right that the shapers site doesnt offer much!

One thing to keep in mind is that different places use different wave measurments. So in Aust and NZ and Hawaii, a 4ft wave is head high to slightly overhead. Hence a 1-4ft wave board is suited to knee high to just overhead (and can go bigger but not as good as other boards). In East Coast USA and the UK, the same board might be described as 1ft to 6ft; or it might still be described as 1-4ft or something in between!

Naturally, this is of little assistance. Knee high to head high is much more useful than 4ft which could mean chest high in the UK or overhead in Australia.

Not that it matters, but your fish being 1-4ft (plus flat rocker etc) is designed for smaller waves; the other board - as people have said - is for steeper waves and can probably cope with larger waves as well. The fish can do overhead waves, but a different board will do it 'better'.

Anyway, buy a new board and figure it out on the waves. Rock up to the beach with 3 boards and stare confidently at the waves and then ostentatiously pick one of the boards and say 'I think today you are the one'. Glare at the longboarders dismissively and warn them about catching all the waves. Come back in and mutter than the single to double concave wasnt working in the pocket today and the rails need a bit more refinement, you might try some glass flex fins to see if they give you more drive to compensate. Decide you need a 6ft2 inch rather than a 6ft3 inch. Turn into a surfer, um, wan#$er.

OK, I'm quite confident you arent and will never be that kind of person (when I got a board made my shaper was telling me about his back problems and I said (as a joke) 'maybe you need a SUP'. He said, very seriously "Dtc, I will never be that kind of person').

Be as the old man - get a board, surf it, figure it out, surf it in all kinds of conditions and just have fun. Buy another board just out of interest, not because its 'the magic one'.

[benjl]

Thanks DTC- that was really interesting about the different size conversions for different areas and thanks for the advice.

Makes me feel a bit more reassured about surfing my 4-6ft waves and thinking that they're big haha. Especially compared to the tales i've read of the waves you guys have surfed which are hughely bigger in comparison! I've never seen myself on a wave so thought 4ft was only about chest high. If 4ft in NZ terms is around head / overhead height then i'm pretty stoked to have been able to achieve that within 5 months.

The surf here today is around 4.5m faces!! but is back down to 2m in the weekend so I'll look forward to trying out round 2 of the anderson board

[jaffa1949]

"All waves are measured in increments of fear" some surf guru said!
Yesterday's waves are always bigger and better in the re-telling than they actually were.
Like fish stories!
The visceral shock of seeing the first photo of yourself on an wave you thought was epic are a wake up to reality.
A video of you and your style will shock you to your core!,
Occasionally a photo does you and the wave justice in the way you thought it was

About the board and back on topic, ride one and push the limits on it as you get more confident then you will really know what works for you!

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah the thing about waves is once it's over only the memories remain unless you have a photograph. Too bad surfing isn't like fishing and you can take a photo of the wave you just caught so you might as well have some fun and not really worry about it

[benjl]

Hi guys

Just thought I would give an update after round 2 with the Anderson board!
I had my first proper 'rail to rail' experience on a wave face today!

The conditions were 2-4ft of crumbly and choppy waves so far from ideal for this board with it's shape and lack of volume. Despite this, once adjusting to the conditions I caught wave after wave.
I had read the surfing lesson post on here about how to do bottom turns / cut backs and it fully worked 100%! I looked back over my shoulder on the backhand side and the board just whipped itself around naturally, then crouched down and extending upwards turning back the other direction to pull it back round to the direction the wave was breaking. Almost the best thing about it was that it happened right in front of my mates so at least there was some actual recollection other than my own memories or how I thought it looked.

I was on about a 3ft wave face that I surfed right across the beach and managed to do some sort of a cut back and my first experience of turning both ways (rail to rail) while still keeping up with and staying on the wave. It was magical! Even though the conditions weren't great and the rides generally weren't long, just being able to master those selection of turns in sequence for the first time made it one of the most enjoyable and memorable days yet.
This board seems to have opened up so many options to improve my surfing- I can drop in late, easily push the nose down when riding on the crest of the wave to drop down the face, duck dive easier and now turn better than I thought I could.

I figure if it can catch 2ft crumbly non-powerful waves as well as much steeper and more powerful waves then I don't have a lot of point keeping my old fish.
I would never have guessed that a drastically thinner and more curved board would've been the right answer for me after only 5 months surfing but it seems to be.

Thank you for all your input in to my surfing questions.

[oldmansurfer]

I totally love learning to do something new on a board. I know that there is a steep learning curve to use a short board to learn on but my only experience was learning to surf on a state of the art short board. One I got the feel for surfing I was on the best board for me. I hear from others who have a similar experience but I am sure there are some who quit surfing because learning on a short board is too difficult. But good for you. I surfed rail to rail and did a whole variety of maneuvers on knee boards and body boards (and even bodysurfing I did a top of the wave bottom of the wave set of turns) before I started surfing so I don't recall when I first did rail to rail turns but I do remember when I got my cutbacks down......the first time, I still am working on that this time around. It's great to hear from someone just learning and enjoying it.