fish or shortboard?

[ungar60]

Hi there,
I surf for about 3 years now (probably one month of surfing) so I guess I'm an advanced beginner...
I can drop in, do a bottom turn and carve a bit
This summer I went surfing in France with my friend's surfboard (a 6'5 - 18 1/2 - 2 3/16 shortboard shaped by homegrown Fuerteventura) I was only able to ride the waves for a very short time with this board because I couldn't get much speed with it so it sunk...
My question is what type (fish or shortboard) and size of board do you suggest?
I weigh about 175 lbs (80kg) and i'm 6 foot tall (185cm)
the waves i'll be surfing are 4-7 foot (here in Belgium)
what do you suggest?

[drowningbitbybit]

Hello there,

I'm about the same size as you and Ive got a fish and a shortboard, and I find the fish much better for me and useable far more more often (when the waves are small, gutless, windslop etc) but the shortie needs almost perfect conditions

Is that a 'real' 4-7ft or a 'surfers' 4-7ft?
Big difference!
Im guessing you mean waist-headhigh rather than head-overhead?

A fish works best in small and medium sized waves but begins to slide out (for me anyway) on anything above headhigh


If you're not getting the speed, sounds like you're on smaller waves and could do with a fish.
Mine is a 6'6 hybrid (2 and a half fins) with a swallow tail - go with something like that

[globesurfer]

The mmore you progress on your groovy fish, the more you REgress on your standard stick.

Not really cool

[drowningbitbybit]

The mmore you progress on your groovy fish, the more you REgress on your standard stick.

Not really cool

So only shortboards count huh?

What if your fish is the best stick for the conditions you surf? Doesnt that make it 'standard'?

And of course, thats a load of flesh. I switch between the boards and one helps the other

...And I dont care if you or anyone else thinks Im cool out there as long as Im having a good time, and if the right stick helps then I'll surf it...

[ungar60]

I mean waist to headhigh...
tnx for helping me out!

[Brent]

I suspect the shortboard you used was too aggressivly shaped and too low volume for you (if you sank it). Ride a shortboard with flat to average rocker, boxy rails with decent volume and with a nose of reasonable width rather than a needle nosed high performance board and see what you think then.
Both designs are good for specific purposes and wave types. Neither are better than the other.

[ungar60]

than what is the main difference between the fish & the shortboard, because both boards (fe: fish 6'4 & shortboard 6'10) seem to work out fine in the conditions I described...

[Brent]

go to www.swaylocks.com, search fish & read up there.
This question has been well covered along with good photo's all over the place to illustrate.

In essence a fish is short, thick, flat with two large fins facing almost dead ahead. A shortboard is a much more refined thruster design (it's had another 25 plus years of evolution).

Using a car analogy covering similar time periods...It's like compairing a 1972 VW Beetle to a 2002 VW Beetle. We all love the old ones now for their current retro status, coolness & fun...but evolution moves on and objectively, the later model is a much better car.
Make sense?

[ungar60]

makes sense

so is it a shortboard (it has 3 fins) with a swallowtail?
or is it a fish (it's short, thick and flat)?
...
1972 VW beetles can be tuned and ride as good as 2002's

[drowningbitbybit]

Thats a hybrid fish

A 'true' fish is as Brent described, but a lot of fish these days are 'hybrid fish'. That is they've taken characteristics of the fish (wide, swallow tail etc) but added the refinements of the thruster (3 fins, double concave, narrow tail, a bit more rocker)

This gives them the characteristics of a fish but edging towards the performance of a thruster.

My 'fish' is actually a hybrid and I Love it!

[Brent]

Hi again,
Um, it's a topic for discussion this.
Is a "real" fish one that is true to the original design.....or is a modern hybrid fish equally a fish?

Personally I don't think so.

I own two short hybrid "fish" and (until recently) a 5'10" original fish.....ironically I so regret selling my real fish I've since reordered another one (now due October).

Hybrid fish are not fish...they are a modern shortboard designed to be used in small waves, they are short, often with a slight hip, wide, full nosed, full railed thrusters, they usually have concaves of some sort. When I ride either of mine it is still a shortboard...but one that works well in small waves.

A real fish has it's wide point about 2" ahead of midway (this is the defining design element), they have pretty much even thickness distribution the whole length of the board right up into the nose area, they are specifically twin finned with large keel fins with almost no 'cant' or 'toe-in' of the fins. There is no actual design similarities between the two types other than the fact they may both share common measurements, say 5'10" x 20.5" for example.

My VW analogy stands. comparing a traditional fish to a 1970's beetle and a hybrid fish to a new beetle is valid; the early one is a timepeice, a classic in both simple design & economic engineering, from their 16" wheels to a rear mounted flat 4 aircooled engine....to muck around or change any element changes the nature of the whole car.

A modern beetle draws on the romanticism of the old one and sells itself on nostalga (much like the current retro fashion for modern varients of old surfboard designs)...but uses modern design and engineering. It may have roughly similar dimensions, it may have similar curves...but is a totally different car.

[drowningbitbybit]

Um, it's a topic for discussion this.

We could babble on about this all day!!

But we wont... because as it happens I agree with you.
The fish - hybrid fish - shortboard definitions clearly have some overlap, and I'd say that the hyrbid is pretty much a category in itself and not just a merging of the other two.

But the shops still often call them 'fish'

Good, right, everyone confused? Good, thats sorted then

[ungar60]

I must admit that I was pretty confused but things have cleared up in my head now...
tnx dudes!

[tomcat360]

Brent,

you say that modern fish are not true fish, which i agree, but they are good for some conditions. if you would rather be doing airs and crazy cutbacks (i know it is possible with a old fish) then a modern fish would be good in small waves. in good powerful fast hollow waves, then you would not need the sacrifice of a swallow tail, which tends to sink.


i would suggest a wider fish, it just seems that i would have been happier in my first two years if i had gotten a fish instead of the average white, roundtail thruster built for big waves and pro surfers.


thats simply my opinion

tommy

[globesurfer]

The mmore you progress on your groovy fish, the more you REgress on your standard stick.

Not really cool

So only shortboards count huh?

What if your fish is the best stick for the conditions you surf? Doesnt that make it 'standard'?

And of course, thats a load of flesh. I switch between the boards and one helps the other

...And I dont care if you or anyone else thinks Im cool out there as long as Im having a good time, and if the right stick helps then I'll surf it...

Dude chill out...

What I meant, is like, if you surf a fish like, the whole time, when you go back onto a standard shortboard, you might find that your surfing has gone down a notch.
I said MIGHT..

Cool

[gulfsurfer]

dont get a fish until you have got riding a shortboard down

[Brent]

Likewise; I read somewhere also..'the better you get on a fish the worse you get on a shortboard' - based on my experience I think the comment is a load of rubbish.
Yes they are very different to ride, so different in fact neither stuffs you up when you use the other...
Example; this morning I rode my 5'11" hybrid fish until I realised the waves were too big to really catch waves well on it. So I went home & got my 6'4" x 18.5" x 2.5" shortboard and got straight into it. Five inches longer (more paddle speed)I caught more waves straight off, no getting used to it, no flailing, no probs getting used to a narrower board... no nothing.
If you ride one board endlessly for months on end you'll go crap on any different board when you first jump on it. I try (within reason) to ride a couple of different boards every week, I am fortunate to currently have 5 boards in my quiver (and Libby's 7' mini-mal) ...and I use every single one of them. It makes every surf educational as I notice little handling things that are different with every board.

I can happily switch between Libby's 7' funboard (if the waves are sub 1' & lined up nice mal waves) and have fun on that just enjoying the glide...or if it's bigger I'll pull out a hybrid fish until it's about 3 foot & abit steeper, then I'll use my shortboard until it's solid 5-6" then out comes mini-gun. Every board has a sweet spot wave-wise. You just have to learn what works for you personally in your area.

I think many young surfers are too influenced by what they read & see in the surf media equipment wise; there is a whole generation of surfers come through now that has grown up learning on & surfing deeply rockered, thin, narrow thrusters and I love watching them struggle to surf 1-3 foot waves on these boards, stamping up & down and pumping hard trying to keep moving without sinking up to their knees on these totally undervolumed pro replica-type boards. They're not having as much fun on us who ride hybrid or real fish in these waves....their wave-count is usually way down on us.

The funny thing is shortboards were not like this originally...hunt out a picture of Simon Anderson's original thruster circa 1982...it looks like a hybrid fish in it's measurements.

The great thing now is the choice; today you can buy an ultra high performance shortboard, a hybrid fish, a twin fin, a fish...whatever, and ride it wherever you like without being dissed for it.

Enjoy whatever you ride; experiment & try different boards...it's all good.

[gulfsurfer]

Yep i agree with you on everything there brent

[drowningbitbybit]

Dude chill out...

*hug*

[drowningbitbybit]

Enjoy whatever you ride; experiment & try different boards...it's all good.

Wise words!

Shame its almost flat for us in the UK (except for the east coasters) right now!