by k mac » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:54 pm
by Roy Stewart » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:17 pm
by k mac » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:26 pm
by Roy Stewart » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:05 pm
by babyboarder89 » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:01 am
by duhkine » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:25 am
by gulfsurfer » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:07 pm
RoyStewart wrote:Gulfsurfer, please excuse me for being a pedantic, hairsplitting iconoclast for what I am about to say:
Let's say that Surftech boards are poor in terms of some standard or other of performance. If they are, then it's not because they are made in a 'foreign' country by a 'twelve year old kid' because they could just as easily be made in Texas by geriatrics and that wouldn't change their performance at all. If they are not providing a 'good' ride then it is because of the actual physical product. Bagging those boards because of where they are built is mysterioso nonsense again .. . and is really weird because they are boards which are designed by the supposedly 'best' shapers in the world. . . like they weren't designed in a 'foreign' country were they? Criticising surftech because the boards are built in Asia by nonsurfers is ridiculous and more or less implies that a board will perform well only if it is actually touched by the master. This is ridiculous.
My personal opinion is that conventional longboard design has stagnated because of noseriding requirements which drastically reduce the effective performance of the board in terms of basic indicators like speed, tuberiding ability and ease of control. Thus the boards which are pumped up as the best are really obsolete boards designed to a handicap rule, in the same way that some yachts are designed to rating rules which inhibit performance ( The old IYRU rules produced chronically slow 'Teapots')
It's really no use hiding behind the old names anymore. The Malibu is an outdated slowboard and we need to move on in longboard design by treating longboards as surfboards not just floating stages for stylish poses.
by deathfrog » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:33 am
RoyStewart wrote:Possibly, but most surfers just want what they are told to want . . . they just jump on the current bandwagon . . . excuse me for being cynical but I find it strange that the qualities of certain designs are completely ignored until there is a major marketing drive . . and then they are the latest trend.
Take the seventies singlefin shortboards for example . . I rode them exclusively throughout the seventies and eighties . . and up until 1996, because I always found that they were a joy to ride in pointbreak waves and would outperform thrusters in terms of subtle highline drives and in section making ability. I can honestly say that I copped a lot of ridicule and abuse for riding my collection of seventies singles. . . . but look at it now, it's the latest rage.
The seventies singlefin has come back quite simply because it is necessary for the surf industry to rehash old fashions in order to keep their marketing strategy fresh . . . so that retro clothes, boards, and movies can be sold. Of course the retro seventies trend is presenting something real and enjoyable, I am not denying that, but the fact is that surfers turned their noses up at the concept until they were told that it is the latest 'cool'. The hydrodynamic qualities of the boards haven't changed though have they?
With longboarding, it is hardly surprising that so many people miraculously exercise their free will and individuality by deciding to all do the same little longboarding dance. . . . it is because they are being bombarded by advertising telling them to do it. The fact is though, that following the noseriding and cross stepping trend means that you wind up with a relatively dysfunctional board in terms of wavemaking ability and ease of control. People don't know this because all the other longboards around them are slow and difficult to ride. Bummer? Well that depends. . . . most people just want to hang in the crowd, and don't actually care if they can't make the wave while someone else does, as long as they look cool walking up the beach and are in with the 'boys'.
It does crack me up though when I get the only long, fast rides in a session out of a large pack of 'Malibus', and I don't mind if it stays that way.
I also doubt if many of the name shapers could create a fast, easy to ride longboard. They haven't yet been dialled into the concept by Big Brother, and they have little practice at designing from first principles.
by Roy Stewart » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:58 am
In your opinion it is "ridiculous" to criticize a board because it was shaped by nonsurfers in asia, but in my opinion its ridiculous not to get one from a shaper who also surfs or atleast knows about surfing.
The reason i longboard is for the cruise. I dont get on a longboard to rip, ill save that for a shortboard. Its all about the flow to me on a longboard and its also all about noseriding. You may want to rip on a longboard but hey, whatever floats your boat.
by gulfsurfer » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:11 am
by Roy Stewart » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:26 am
DeathFrog wrote: I also disagree about your comment about many name shapers probally wouldn't be able to make a fast and easy to ride longboard, and they do have lots of practice at designing from first principles, if they wern't, why did they get so big in the first place?
I'm a shaper myself, I'm 15, and if I wanted to I could make a fast longboard if I wanted to,
. . . . and thats why bigger name shapers have gotten their name, from doing the same thing and making a superior product that made more money, therefore could afford more advertising, sponsor a better a better team, get more experience as a shaper, and make an even better product than before. . . . .
. . . . .making the same thing over and over again you can learn things, riding the same thing over and over again you can learn things
. . . and I think that's waht this retro thing is, not you criticizing people like me who like to ride bonzers and twinzers instead of potato chips just because they work better for what I want to use them for.
by duhkine » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:56 am
by babyboarder89 » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:50 pm
by deathfrog » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:10 am
That's not what I would call learning. Start trying to go faster . . . then you will be learning!
I didn't criticise you for riding bonzers . . but I bet you wouldn't be doing it unless the global surf industry machine had dialled you into it!
This is a myth . . . the bigger name shapers do not necessarily make a 'better' product . . they just make more money. A fashionable item is not always 'better' . . and one thing is certain . . big name shapers are always carefully fashionable as their first criteria for success.
I challenge you to do it!
Well the point is that I have so many surfs where the water is chocka with 'name' shapes and team riders but I am the only one making the waves! If the 'name' shapers are so good at making fast boards then why don't they make one now and then? I can tell you one thing about speed, and that is that no longboard can go faster than a flexible tunnel finned pintail. I can tell you one thing about name shapers too . . . they got big by hanging with the herd, and none of them know anything about tunnel finned surfboards unless they heard it from me!
The speed challenge is on Brother. . . go sharpen your planer blades!
by babyboarder89 » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:40 am
by duhkine » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:47 am
babyboarder89 wrote:dunkhine! your 15 and selling self shaped board allready thats awesome! i too am 15 (what a great age!) and have recently started shaping my first board, im having tons of fun, i got a super cheap EPS blank from wickes and ive been refining and drawing and have now sanded back to the line, the next step is top make a top and bottom and rails so im dead excited, does anyone know (as it seems there are plenty of knowledgeable folks around) if you can use Volan cloth and polyester resin on an EPS blank? or can you only use epoxy, if you can only use epoxy resin with EPS, can you use volan cloth with Epoxy and if you can/cant, what kind of finish does epoxy give, is polyester better or is epoxy? whats stronger, whats easier to use? ta for any input...
by deathfrog » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:54 am
by babyboarder89 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:36 am
by babyboarder89 » Fri May 13, 2005 3:11 pm
by Roy Stewart » Fri May 20, 2005 7:24 am
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