Shape Related

[doogie]

So, I'm pretty new to the surfing game and have yet to buy a new board, just the used banged up types. I surf the east coast where the waves are pretty small and powerless. Aside from the dimensions of a board, what type of shapes catch smaller waves the best? I'm not so worried about turning and maneuverability. I just wanna catch lots of smaller waves, since I only make it out to the beach maybe 2 times a week at them most and don't have a chance to always get out during the good surf.

[ghost_who_surfs]

Probably something with a flatish profile like a nose rider. Make sure you have a bit of tail lift though for turning, definitely go with a thruster or tri fin set up and I wouldn't put anything longer than a 7"fin in the centre.

Personally I wouldn't go over about 9'6" for the type of wave you describe and my reasoning is the longer the board the better it paddles but the harder it is to turn and you don't want to be running over anyone.

Just my opinion I'm sure other have theirs.

Stay stoked!

[doogie]

I have an 8'6",it's got a tri-fin setup but the center fin is longer than 8", and the two other are about 4 inches or so. It seems to wobble a lot more than the 7'2" fun board I had. The tail tapers down a good bit more, it isn't as fat and egg shaped in the rear as my fun board and I think that's what causes it. I've only had one day out with it though and the waves were only 2-3' feet so we'll see after this weekend.

[grub]

Probably something with a flatish profile like a nose rider. Make sure you have a bit of tail lift though for turning, definitely go with a thruster or tri fin set up and I wouldn't put anything longer than a 7"fin in the centre.

Personally I wouldn't go over about 9'6" for the type of wave you describe and my reasoning is the longer the board the better it paddles but the harder it is to turn and you don't want to be running over anyone.

Just my opinion I'm sure other have theirs.

Stay stoked!

Sounds like pretty good advice... I prefer a tri-fin (2 plus 1) setup for bigger waves, you cant go wrong with a traditional single fin in smaller surf. Never had a problem turning my 9'6" on smaller days, although when it does get a bit bigger tend to slide/skim a bit (50/50 rail induced) as you make the bottom turn; not a huge problem but definatly reduced maneuverability with size.

I find that the following specs. are good for an all-round board: 9'1"; 60/40 rails; 2 plus 1 fin setup; I prefer a pin tail to increase overall performance in terms of maneuverability (notice in bigger swell) but basic square tail might be a better option or for a bit of a differance a diamond tail.

Good luck with your new 8'6"

[doogie]

Thanks a lot guys.
So what's this 50/50, 60/40 rails stuff? I'm not up to par with the shape talk, I've just recently started trying to progress now that I'm good with the whole stand up and ride deal.

[grub]

So what's this 50/50, 60/40 rails stuff?

The profile of the outer contour of the rail... if I remember/make time I will try to have a look to find an examples; for now here is a make do explination (without going into the science):

• 50/50 more or less the shape of your eye also often called "soft rails" ie. 50% above, 50% below... aids suction forces, smooth loose feel more suit to a traditional style of surfing where you will turn off the fin with no rail assistance ie. good for a nose rider...
• 60/40 pointier/boxy/sharper with the peak centered towards the bottom... beter control, rails tend to break the water rather than slice into it or plain; better performance charactoristics in terms of maneuverability... suited to a more modern style of surfing.

A couple of links for you:

• This link to surfline doesn't explain to much but a good read anyway: http://www.surfline.com/surfaz/surfaz.cfm?id=850
• A bit more infomation here (primarily 50/50): http://www.harboursurfboards.com/design.html#rails
• This site breaks it up a bit better than what I did, including boxy/down rail and the like:http://www.extremehorizon.com/surfboard_design.asp
• This is one of the best breakdowns I have seen in terms of board variations (go the flash version) that I thinks sums up most of the things people need to know: http://www.surfline.com/mag/features/anatomy/

5 mininutes on yahoo, imagine what "you" would find if you spent 10

[tomcat360]

where on the east coast?

[jonny]

Here's my two-penneth worth:

Depending on your weight & height a good board for smaller waves is going to be around 9'6" x 23" x 3".

I'd not even give a second glance to tri-fins or thruster style set ups - move directly to a single fin with an good 8" fin or 9" fin.

Board design:
- you want to look for a nice fat square or diamond tail - this is going to help you catch every wave. And I mean FAT!!!
- 50:50 rails are a must, especially in smaller waves - they will give you really smooth rail to rail transition and help you with noseriding and walking the board. You don;t need sharp ralis to grip the face on a longboard unless you are surfing way overhead!
- Nice flat overall rocker - again - helps you catch waves and helps you paddle fast. Help the board trim really smoothly too but main advantage is the ease of paddle and ease of wave catching
- slight kick in the tail - helps your turn
- slight uplift in the nose to help avoid pearling and to ride over and small wave slop and close-outs.

I'd also go for a fairly heavy board - go with volane glass if you can afford it. The extra weight give give the board a certain momentum and glide to help you keep going in the smaller waves and help cut through and slop and chop on the face.

J

[tomcat360]

you said that a fat square or diamond tail will help catch more waves--does this apply to all shapes?

I'm doing a board I hope to use on most waves, specializing in small, that is a 6'8" x 20.5" x 2 13/16 with a round tail, should I switch it to a squash or diamond?

[doogie]

Ok, so my board is a 8'6"x22"x3", with a squash tail and 2x1 fins. At the end of the dimension it says "vee", what does this mean? It has round rails with the apex in the middle, I assume making them 50/50 rails. It has about an 8" cut-away fin in the middle and 3-4" (can't find my ruler) fins on the sides. What do you folks recommend as a good baseline setup for my fins before I start experimenting with them? I'm intrested more in stability than turning, since most of my rides are a more or less straight in affair where I surf anyway.
Thanks a lot guys, this stuff is awesome.

[jonny]

you said that a fat square or diamond tail will help catch more waves--does this apply to all shapes?

I'm doing a board I hope to use on most waves, specializing in small, that is a 6'8" x 20.5" x 2 13/16 with a round tail, should I switch it to a squash or diamond?

Pretty much yeah. There are lots of different factorys involved and I'm not an expert on shortboards. A round tail should work well for you on a shortboard providing you keep it nice and wide still. Don;t be tempted to make it too much on a pintail. Squash, diamond or round will work well.

[jonny]

Ok, so my board is a 8'6"x22"x3", with a squash tail and 2x1 fins. At the end of the dimension it says "vee", what does this mean? It has round rails with the apex in the middle, I assume making them 50/50 rails. It has about an 8" cut-away fin in the middle and 3-4" (can't find my ruler) fins on the sides. What do you folks recommend as a good baseline setup for my fins before I start experimenting with them? I'm intrested more in stability than turning, since most of my rides are a more or less straight in affair where I surf anyway.
Thanks a lot guys, this stuff is awesome.

The Vee probably refers to a "V" shaped channel in the underside of your board - helps with water flow.

Fin set up for smaller waves I would recommend
- lose the side fins completely.
- THEN lose the cutaway fin!!

Sounds harsh but a cutaway fin does not provide any drive through the board. In smaller waves you need a good amount of surface area on your fin to grab every bit of available energy from the wave.

My advice would be to find a local store that will let you try a couple, of try a few of your friends on the beach and find out which one works well for you.

[doogie]

I heard the side fins help provide lift, which helps catch the waves earlier, is that not true?

[tomcat360]

The degree of cant on side fins give lift to the tail

so think if water is pushing on those fins, they only have one way to go, up. However, they also create a bit of drag.

Play around with different set ups to see how the side fins effect the ride. good experience


/........|........\

[doogie]

So the lift provided by the fins isn't beneficial enough to counteract the drag?

From VA, huh? I'm down in NC, where do you surf? I surf Wrightsville and the cove a lot. You check out the Outer Banks much? What are they like?

[dougirwin13]

You are unlikely to feel the difference if you are at the beginner/intermediate stage. Getting towards intermediate/expert you probably can.

If you are at that stage try a board with removable fins. Funboard or longboard. Surf the board with the "sidebites" in and out and you'll feel the difference. It has it's pros and cons. For example you'll need your weight further back with the sidebites in (nose gets pushed down a little).

-doug

[jonny]

On smaller waves on a longboard, the side fins will just create drag.
There are two reasons they are there - one is to make the board looser and easier to turn and second to help keep grip in the face on bigger steeper waves.

[tomcat360]

So the lift provided by the fins isn't beneficial enough to counteract the drag?

From VA, huh? I'm down in NC, where do you surf? I surf Wrightsville and the cove a lot. You check out the Outer Banks much? What are they like?

OBX gets a lotta swell because it is sticking out so far. The waves there are significantly better than those at VA beach (where I surf mainly) but I don't go down there too much because of the traffic. It's horrendus in the summer.

WB looks really good a lot of the time. I'm always looking at wb live surf when I'm bored. How are the waves in general down there?

[doogie]

Wrightsville is a good longbaord spot, you get some decently long rides on an incoming tide. I'm a big fan of Surf City on Topsail Island. A swell out of the south makes some good longboard rides, and a swell coming from the north makes some fast breaking waves. Yesterday I was out at both, Surf City was getting 3-4 foot barrels that some of the short boarders were cuttin up nice, but they started rolling over too fast and were hard to ride with longboards. We shot down to WB and got some decently long longboard rides, and saw plenty of nice chicas from UNC-Wilmington.

[mcsurf]

Outer Banks Board Company is down your way. They aren't a big name but they're boards are really great wave catchers and work well. Another good choice might be a Walden. They now make a price point model that's machine shaped and hand glassed in Taiwan. My wife and I each ride Walden epoxy boards and I've never been out in anything that made me concerned that I was on the wrong board. I ride a 10' as a single fin and love it's ability to catch small waves and it's looseness on the face of bigger waves. Surfing isn't rocket science. Anything that lets you catch a lot of waves is good, and remember, in the hands of a competant surfer, everything works.