Surf Line Up Etiquette...???

[DavyJones]

1) How do you know who's turn is next? After that guy/gal and so on?
2) Is it as simple as just asking? Yelling out to the crowd..."Yo...who's next up to rip/shred?"
3) Is there an actual line/formation that all the other locals/surfers get into and form...so technically...you can see "visually" where the end of the line is in relation to the wave break...so you can go to the back of the line?
4) Is this different from place to place or the same universally?
5) Probably easier to go with another experienced surfer right?

Forgot to say that I am from CA-LI-FOR-NI-AY!

Please help answer my questions as I will be surfing in a couple weeks.

Thanks. Shakas up!

[jaffa1949]

Wow Davy, fortunately the secret business of the inner workings of the Illuminati of surfing is beyond the comprehension of most learners, so great for asking.

As a learner it would be hard to get into any lineup with any element of priority, and if there was was you wouldn't be part of it. ( harsh but true)

Whenever someone paddles out at a surf spot the surfers already there assess your paddle style your positioning coming out and decide at what level they want to treat you.
At some breaks you would be immediately harassed out of the water, non local or an evaluation of your skills.
So let's directly answer your questions

1. Usually the person nearest the most critical part of the wave to take off this can be waived if the crowd is aware that some one with skills has let a few go through to get a better one, the person who has just paddled back inside from their last wave does not have priority (often they will try for it though)
This is difficult to judge and even harder to enforce your priority if you are an outsider!

2. Asking this question, although it is a good clear communication, will immediately put a big label on you as a Kook and render any thoughts you might have as to your position in the line up as null and void

3. The line is amorphous and everchanging it is an intellectual amoeba. Just when you think you know the rules they change. But you are expected to know
a ferinstance for you, a mellow session is in progress all is peace and love in the surf.
Barry the Frother paddles out hatred and entitlement in his heart, the nice people you were surfing with either ramp up their aggression or slowly get out or go to another bank.

4.different from place to place, time to time uncrowded to crowded.

5. Not a bad idea

From your other posts I would strongly suggest that you stick to beginners spots where people are a little more relaxed and often there are people to gently explain the workings of surf hierachy and politics 101 and help out.

Have a look at these threads
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16067
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20443
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17710

You will see you are not alone in asking questions of this sort and even I don't always know the pecking order but I can sigt to one side and observe for a while and see where I can fit in.
Take it slowly and easy and just set out to enjoy yourself getting into priority or kook called hassles gives no enjoyment.

[Ged]

They are all learners too. Watch the waves and keep paddling to where they are breaking, if for example its breaking left and there is no-one on the wave to your right then the wave is yours. take it.

[tony g]

Hello DavyJones,
I would advise you to go to surf breaks that are less crowded so you can catch lots of waves and don't have to worry as much about the politics of priority and you can also learn to surf without getting in other surfers way.

1) How do you know who's turn is next? After that guy/gal and so on?

The main rule is that whoever is closest to the curl has priority. With that said...If someone catches a wave and then paddles back out around everyone as to re-establish priority their may be problems. Also just because that is the rule does not mean all surfers obey it!

2) Is it as simple as just asking? Yelling out to the crowd..."Yo...who's next up to rip/shred?"

I would suggest not yelling out to the crowd, or you will be labeled quickly. Try to stay low key and act like you kind of know what your doing.

3) Is there an an actual line/formation that all the other locals/surfers get into and form...so technically...you can see "visually" where the end of the line is in relation to the wave break...so you can go to the back of the line?

Usually at crowded breaks it is the more experienced surfers who catch the majority of the waves. Right or wrong they feel like they have put the most time in and therefore deserve to catch most of the waves. They also can take of in the more critical part of the wave, which gives them priority. Also a lot of the time beginners are not going to make the wave anyway, so the experienced surfers will key in on that and take off even though a beginner has priority. When I am surfing un-crowded spots, sometimes we will take turns in the line up. Often times though it may get more crowded and the rules seem to change with the vibe of the line up! Sorry no easy answer to your question. It is one of those things you will learn along with learning to ride the waves.

4)
Is this different from place to place or the same universally?

The rules are the same everywhere but the vibe in the line up, and how they treat outsiders and beginners varies greatly from place to place. Also local-ism plays a role, If the locals are not kind to outsiders, or beginners it may not matter if you have priority! Remember the goal of some locals is to treat you so poorly you never want to come back. In that way they feel like they win and their surf break is less crowded because you don't want to come back. Again I would try to go to beginner friendly breaks until your skill level is such that you can hold your own in a crowded line up. Look for un crowded waves when you are learning and you will have a lot more fun!

5) Probably easier to go with another experienced surfer right?

Yes if you know an experienced surfer who is willing to help you, you can learn a lot from them if they really spend time with you.

[Glide]

Well put Tony. Experience is the teacher. And then, even the most experienced surfer, surfing an unfamilier break has to "figure it out" to have a good time.
Above all stay STOKED.
Glide
http://www.thehangpro.com

[visitor95010]

Came across this thread passing through, searching for web discussions on exactly this topic, interested to read what others have to say, how they advise others on it.

Want to add a simple way of framing this to beginners that is one part semi-harsh reality, and one part common sense (to better surfers, but not to most beginners, or even most intermediates -- in slight disagreement with some of the advice above):

There's really never a good reason for a beginner to try and jockey for position and get "priority" by being deepest in the bowl when surfing with more skilled surfers.

In any line-up, good surfers are already sitting as deep as they can while still being in a good spot, and that is a spot deeper than less skilled surfers can sit while still making the wave.

If you're a beginner, and you try to compete for position with better surfers, all you're going to do is end up ruining a lot of waves for others, and putting yourself in spots where you create chaos and make life unnecessarily difficult for others.

The harsh reality is that where there's a decently large gap in ability, if you're the odd man out you should sit on the shoulder, and hope that you're surfing with nice guys who will pass you some waves because they see that you're conducting yourself considerately, or else move to another spot (where you're more among people of your own ability level).

Even intermediates who just can't sit as deep as really skilled surfers generally are best off, and most etiquette-correct, on the bigger, better, more crowded days when they leave a peak crowded with high-level surfers to the more skilled. Not suprisingly, this is an easier reality to grasp and accept for the higher level surfers than the lower level. Again, the reason is that if you can't make the wave from where a more skilled surfer is setting up, you have no business trying to sit deeper than him (or her) because you want "priority." Priority only applies when you are surfing within your ability, with consideration for others. You have to give consideration in order to receive it. Knowing what that entails is most of the battle.

Again, to simplify this -- and this is something that probably 70% of beginning male surfers don't grasp -- as a beginner you have no business trying to compete for priority with skilled surfers by trying to sit deeper than them. It may sound controversial, but when you're more skilled yourself you'll understand why it isn't.

[jaffa1949]

Even intermediates who just can't sit as deep as really skilled surfers generally are best off, and most etiquette-correct, on the bigger, better, more crowded days when they leave a peak crowded with high-level surfers to the more skilled. Not suprisingly, this is an easier reality to grasp and accept for the higher level surfers than the lower level. Again, the reason is that if you can't make the wave from where a more skilled surfer is setting up, you have no business trying to sit deeper than him (or her) because you want "priority." Priority only applies when you are surfing within your ability, with consideration for others. You have to give consideration in order to receive it. Knowing what that entails is most of the battle.

Again, to simplify this -- and this is something that probably 70% of beginning male surfers don't grasp -- as a beginner you have no business trying to compete for priority with skilled surfers by trying to sit deeper than them. It may sound controversial, but when you're more skilled yourself you'll understand why it isn't.

This is one of the best summations of surf positioning and the relationship to testosterone levels and letting self delusion of skill putting beginners in harms way!.
good stuff Please visit again

[nottyR6]

Visitor95010 I know exactly what you are talking about. I'm 2 yrs in and have recently gone back from a short board to my mal to up the wave count.

What you say is OK, and bare in mind I am very polite in the line up, I'll generally paddle out, say good morning whatever, and sit off a little bit from the peak and get an idea of who is doing what and their skill level. Sometimes if there is only really one peak to be at if there are 3 or 4 experienced shortboarders on it I just cant get a wave unless I compete. If I just sit there they will just paddle over the top and take priority. There comes a point where, provided etiquette is being followed, you have to compete. You just cant have a wave to yourself these days unless its less than 2ft or you need a torch to see. How is the beginner or intermediate going to get better unless they can get decent waves?