High volume shorter boards as a second board?

[dtc]

Like all "good" beginners I started on a longboard. I have got to the stage where I would like to try out a shorter board, to increase my turns and to assist with the steepish beach breaks I tend to surf. My current board is a 9'1" LB. The usual advice is to step down about 1ft or maybe 1 1/2 feet.

There are an increasing number of 'high volume short boards' coming onto the market - 'short' in this context, for me, is around 7 - 7.5ft, but shaped more like a short board (or less like a longboard). These are wider boards (23") and thick (3" plus) and have a lot of volume, around 60 - 70 L (for comparison, a 9ft x 22 1/4 x 2 5/8 LB probably has around 65 - 70L in volume and many performance short boards are around 30L). Examples of the boards are the Firewire Addvantage, McCoy Nugget and Walden mega magic (some of these are more 'traditional' LB shape eg the Walden and some are more shortboard shape - the Firewire. The McCoy is fairly unique, I guess)

They are marketed as allowing the manoeuvrability of a short board but the float and paddling benefits of a LB.

The main difference between these boards and a more traditional board is the extra width - over 23" - and thickness. Both give extra float (which is good and bad) and stability; but there is a trade off - too wide and you lose speed (as I understand it) and so forth. The thickness doesnt seem to concern people I have spoken to, but the 'extreme' width raises eyebrows. A lot of concern is how the boards will go in the larger surf, but thats not too much of an issue for me as I will either go to the LB or stay on the beach...

Has anyone moved from a LB to one of these style of boards, rather than to a more traditional mini mal or shortboard? My aim is more wave catching than performance plus something I will not struggle with too much (ie does not require a long learning curve - I'm too old to spend 2 years learning how to surf the wrong board). I have read reviews and the boards are generally liked, but its hard to know whether a 20 year surfer liking a board means anything at all to someone at my level. A lot of good surfers I have discussed this with think 21" is wide, and 23" seems way too radical - its a board to have when you already have 4 other boards, not the board that is your main board. A lot of internet discussion around beginner/intermediate level boards focuses on length only, not width or thickness (because, traditionally, length was more important and no one really played around with the other variables too much)

Thanks for any thoughts

(I should add - not too worried about 'outgrowing' a board, within reason - if I want to move to a shorter or narrower board in a few years time then that is fine, I'll just buy another board. Of course, getting another board that offers nothing more than my current board is to be avoided)

[Surf Hound]

I am 42 years old, I grew up surfing until I was in the 9th grade then moved to the mainland and did not surf for 25 years. Anyway... when I came back to the islands I literally had to learn to surf again. I had no chance of starting back on a short board even though thats all I surfed as a kid. After maybe a year or so of the longboard I too wanted to go shorter and had the same questions you are having. I went from an 10' longboard down to a 8'6" custom fun shape that was 3 1/4' thick, then down to 7'10" thats 3" thick and 24" wide and then down to a 7'4" thats 3" thick and 23" wide. I also have a 7'1" x 221/2"x3" thick. Honestly, I am too big for the 7-1 and its way too much work for me even though sometimes I will take it out when I can spend more than an hour in the water with near perfect conditions (glassy etc. for the paddling) As far as the journey to smaller I took, it was rather painless. The hardest jump was the 10' down to the 8-6. I am an okay shape 42 year old that is 6' 230 lbs (built more for the football I played younger rather than a surfer). Short, is really not that short for me but similiar to where you are going I think? The width you are talking about is great. The extra width helps with plaining quicker at the take off . I have found it was better for me to go a bit wider rather than thicker to get the volume up. I did not know going wide like 24" brought down the speed. again only my opinon but my 7-10 that is 24" wide is probably my favorite board - it is shaped like a big Sweet Potato from Fire Wire. I would put my skill level at intermediate. I am not ripping a wave to shreds like the younger guys but I carve some nice solid turns and really enjoy both my long and shortER boards. IMO dont be afraid of the width as much as the thickness as I found anything thicker than 3 3/8 felt "corky".

[jaffa1949]

Like all "good" beginners I started on a longboard. I have got to the stage where I would like to try out a shorter board, to increase my turns and to assist with the steepish beach breaks I tend to surf. My current board is a 9'1" LB. The usual advice is to step down about 1ft or maybe 1 1/2 feet.

There are an increasing number of 'high volume short boards' coming onto the market - 'short' in this context, for me, is around 7 - 7.5ft, but shaped more like a short board (or less like a longboard).

They are marketed as allowing the manoeuvrability of a short board but the float and paddling benefits of a LB.

(I should add - not too worried about 'outgrowing' a board, within reason - if I want to move to a shorter or narrower board in a few years time then that is fine, I'll just buy another board. Of course, getting another board that offers nothing more than my current board is to be avoided)

I chopped down you post to go areas where i think I can suggest something. Have a look at the GSI 7S range the shaper who designed these had my weight in mind when he shaped the higher volume boards in this range, at 100Kgs I find that I can get down and handle a 7'3" if it is one of the epoxy range, ( extra float) the PU one at that size is a little more difficult for the paddle but not the surf. I've an 8ft Magic ( Gordon and Smith) fish in the Surftech tufflite series a great board and performs at a short board level for me high performance easy paddler.Have a look at those boards for reference to others.

[dtc]

Thanks guys for the quick reply. I think you have put my mind at ease - I was all set to look at these boards more closely but then spoke to some of my surfer friends (who are all v good) and they were very dismissive of anything so wide and thick. Of course, they all ride 19inch shortboards...that said, they are all comfortable in something around 22 inches but mention 23 inches and they freak out

I am 6ft 3/185lbs (189cm/85kg) so I dont need the board volume so much for the weight, but more for paddling/wave catching and for the benefit of a shorter board. I was originally thinking of moving down to a 7'8" or 8ft board, but the suggestion for these higher volume boards is to ride them shorter because the volume means you dont need the length. So, for example, a 7'2" Addvance has similar volume to most 8ft 'standard' mini mals. Thus you can get the benefit of a shorter board but (the marketing says) not the disadvantages. Whether its easier to ride a wide short board or a longer thinner board I'm not sure.

(the Addvance is here: http://www.firewiresurfboards.com/quive ... d=addvance)

That said, Surf House says the move down from 10 to 8-6 was the hardest, so perhaps moving from 9ft to something like a 7-2 is a step too far - the 'downside' of the high volume boards if that you cant go too long or you hit the corky problem mentioned.

Jaffa, the GSI 7S XL was actually the first board that caught my eye and sparked my interest in these kind of boards.


I should probably add that most of the time I am surfing beach breaks, so fairly steep waves, I'm not sure that an inch or so different in width is going to be all that noticable.

Anyway, thanks again guys.

[garbarrage]

I found moving from 9ft to 7ft9 relatively easy. Moving from 7ft9 to 7ft was a little frustrating at first but had a couple of weeks of consistent surf that coincided with a period of unemployment and was flying after about 10 sessions. The move from 7ft to 6ft8 and all subsequent drops in size were surprisingly easy. I think the 7ft9 to 7ft change was difficult because the change was from a mal shape to a funboard (shortboard shape).

The 6ft8 was 21" wide and the only reason I changed boards is because the extra width (especially in the tail) seemed to make the board skatey on steep waves or faster peeling waves. Making keeping up with the pace of the wave difficult as it was hard to set a line.

[themathteacher]

So, to give you an idea. I'm 200lbs and my high volume board is 6'3 x 22 x 3retro fish. It floats me fine, and my begginer buddies seem to do ok with it, so a 7ft board should do, but if you are surfing beachbreak you might want to consider smaller.

Is there a local place where you can test ride or rent one?

[Jimi]

I am 6ft 3/185lbs (189cm/85kg) so I dont need the board volume so much for the weight, but more for paddling/wave catching and for the benefit of a shorter board.

So, for example, a 7'2" Addvance has similar volume to most 8ft 'standard' mini mals. Thus you can get the benefit of a shorter board but (the marketing says) not the disadvantages

I should probably add that most of the time I am surfing beach breaks, so fairly steep waves, I'm not sure that an inch or so different in width is going to be all that noticable.

As Teach said, for steep beach breaks, a 7'2 is still a big board. My tip is borrow/hire/steal a ride on a 6'6x22 (or thereabouts) hybrid fish. Don't touch a 'true' fish or a 'retro' shape. Useless for learning in steeper waves.

I believe something like the Webber Fatburner should come close. At any rate, high volume and short with a fair bit of rocker will help you on the steep drops, but impede paddling and catching smaller waves significantly, plus you'll be slower through sections than on your longboard. A trade off, but you'll get much more confidence in steep stuff, and you'll be amazed at the turns you can do.

[dtc]

I have thought about renting a board, although its a bit difficult logistically. But I have only ever surfed longboards, so renting a board for a day or even a few days might not tell me much, because I won't really know what I am doing (that is, it might take longer than the rental period before I figure out how to deal with the board).

Interesting that the move from 'mal shape' to 'funboard' shape is harder, I hadnt really thought about that. But I think the funboard is the way to go, a minimal seems to offer not a great deal more than a mal in the circumstances, so perhaps defeats the point. Hopefully no unemployment for me to try it out, but I do get a few solid weeks at the beach.

The Fatburner looks like a contender as well - thanks for that, its on the list.

Too many choices! And its only board 2. No wonder people regularly have 6+ boards in their quivers. And then you get the two competing viewpoints - longer for learners (I am still learning, although not a total beginner) but also that shorter is better because of the nature of the waves. So then shorter is preferable. As well as longer being better. What I need is a longboard that shortens automatically at pop up.

Anyway, lots of useful thoughts for me to digest, thanks guys (and/or gals)

[drowningbitbybit]

What I need is a longboard that shortens automatically at pop up.

Ooh, I like that idea - put me down for one of those too

[IonhideCR]

Well after some classes and about 1 month practicing, I was decided to buy a 7'2 funboard NSP. In the store they offered me a test drive, and i saw de 6'6 shortboard. I was kindda questioning myself if it was worth it to buy that 7'2 funboard cuz I was afraid that maybe after 2 months I would get bored and want to change to something shorter. So i went to test drive de 6'6 shorty. Buying a $500 surfboard would keep me with it for at least a year, i can't afford to buy another one.

Paddling was much harder but possible, as well catching waves. After several tries I stand up. a $500 investment seems better on something I would keep on using for much time, so think about that. Maybe you will struggle, but at the end it will be better.

[Surf Hound]

I have thought about buying that Aadvance board from Fire Wire a time or two.... I actually thought the biggest they made was a 7-4, whatever it is, I have checked it out several times, did the whole under the arm test and everything and just never pulled the trigger. I think it would be a good board to start the journey shorter being that you are only 185-190. for me going from 10 to 8-6 was the hardest jump - the other jumps I have made shorter have been rather painless other than you got to paddle like a mad man and my sessions were noticably shorter due to the amount of paddling required. I really do think going down to that Advance board would be the way to go.... You may find because the boards shorter and more has more rocker that it may be easier than the 9 footer you are on. I am just an average surfer and I would have an easier time with a shorter board in beach break surf vs a log. I live in Hawaii and when it starts pumping here I am better off on my shorter stuff due to the steepness. The power of the wave really helps in someone my size at takeoff though you gotta pop your a$$ up quick or the lack of paddle power = over the falls. My advice is get that Addvance and make a promise to yourself to take it out every session for a month. Soon you will be ripping like the youngins' or just carving like myself. haha

[surfsadhu]

A local shaper (we have mostly small, crappy surf) commented on Swaylocks some time ago that he like to spread out the volume in a board for beginners and condense it for advanced riders. A certain volume is needed for each individual in specific waves. A beginner will need more length and width and less thickness, and an expert would want less length and width. More surface area makes a board more forgiving...easier to catch waves and more stability for a slower pop-ups. Less surface area make a board more manuverable, but requires a precise pop-up and expert handling.
I started with an old 8'6" performance longboard (I was 255lbs), moved up to a 10' longboard (I was 245lbs), and then got a 7'x23-1/4"x3-1/8" fish (by then: 235lbs) which I stuggled on for a while...it needed a steep wave. I'm now down to 200lbs and ride a 6'8"x20-1/2"x3" Anacapa Glider. It's a great board when I catch and pop-up correctly, but I would like a thinner, wider board (especially in the nose) to up my wave count and help me get up and moving.

[RonG]

As Teach said, for steep beach breaks, a 7'2 is still a big board. My tip is borrow/hire/steal a ride on a 6'6x22 (or thereabouts) hybrid fish. Don't touch a 'true' fish or a 'retro' shape. Useless for learning in steeper waves.

Wow. I am surfing a fairly bitchy, steep beach break and after a year of surfing have just managed a transition from a 9' longboard to an 8'6 single-fin egg (which I'm loving). How people get from longboards to sub 7' foot boards in less in that time is beyond me

[themathteacher]

Wow. I am surfing a fairly bitchy, steep beach break and after a year of surfing have just managed a transition from a 9' longboard to an 8'6 single-fin egg (which I'm loving). How people get from longboards to sub 7' foot boards in less in that time is beyond me

You have a good point. The advice is for someone that wants to try a 7ft board, and based on weight and description of what they want we reply. Looks like you aren't ready for that step, so keep having fun with what you're doing.

And for others reading: remember that there is no magic formula. Get out there, get wet, get surfing, get hooked...

[garbarrage]

Wow. I am surfing a fairly bitchy, steep beach break and after a year of surfing have just managed a transition from a 9' longboard to an 8'6 single-fin egg (which I'm loving). How people get from longboards to sub 7' foot boards in less in that time is beyond me

7ft isn't a really a big leap if you've put your time in on a 9ft. The key is time in the water, and a good period of consistent swell at a reasonable size. If you've spent a while on a longboard, and are getting 10+ good waves an hour in a session (conditions allowing), your paddle fitness should be up to a sub 7ft board. The rest is just determination and practice. That's just to be able to surf a shortboard, getting the best out of one is a whole different can of worms. For that reason alone, I think sticking to a longboard/retro/fun shape is an often over-looked option.

[JaySoNJ]

Hi-

I am 6' 200#. I recently got a Lost 6'0" Bottom Feeder as a trade in on a CI 6'7" board. I am also nearly 55 years old and consider myself adv beginner to intermediate. I was getting really frustrated with the 6'7" board (I loathe using long boards) as I could not do much, if anything on the mushy 1-3 foot waves we have here in SoNJ. For me, I can tell you, it is a lot about volume.

With the new BF, my wave count is much higher and I get into waves much earlier. on 1-2 foot waves I am actually able to catch and ride many. On 3-5, the board is very solid and extremely fast both down the line and in turns. I bring this board every day to check waves and I don't leave without surfing nearly as much as I used to.

Check with manufacturer's on the more modern, higher volume boards. They may be short and ugly, but they allow you to rip even the small, mushy stuff.

[jaffa1949]

JaySoNJ hey it is not necessary to post the same post multiple times, your thoughts are pertinent under a couple of topic but the way you are presenting your thought over and over comes across as spam especially when you resurrect old threads to put the same message...... I've left two of your posts where they are most relevant. Now go surfing