Does a board need foam?

[jaffa1949]

For the masses the thruster configuration is their personal limit by choice!
A pertinent question Clint, are you riding anything experimental, or innovative?
There are still experiments happening you just need to know where to look!
Average riders don't push their equipment to the limit so they are stuck within their own limitations.
Where are sales in small incremental changes to the same, so really design to is stagnant, tweaks are more about selling by fashion, the people who are on the frontiers are out of the mainstream and just doing it,
Without hype. Without publicity or magazine articles, unless you know them you don't know about them.

[Jimi]

To say innovation is dead is just plain wrong. Since 1990s shortboards have been basically aimed at comps, and little has changed there. However that is only one part of surfing.

Look at what people are riding now at your local beach. Yes, there are generic shortboards, but there are also retro single fins and twin fins, hybrids, mals, funboards... etc. I think now shapers are rapidly expanding their hybrid fish ranges to give tailored boards to the majority of surfers.

I think that pros like Dave rastavich are leading the charge for boards that are a pleasure to ride, versus boards that do great snaps.

So I think we are now seeing a significant increase in diversity of boards, which can only lead to innovation when aspects of one board is given to another.

You don't need people to reinvent the wheel just for the sake of it!

[garbarrage]

I doubt anyone thinks it shouldn't progress. The fact that it can't or won't may be because there is nowhere left to go with it. Tweaks to retro designs are all that's left. The short board is certainly at its peak (due to sheer weight of numbers riding/shaping). The material boards are made of has a lot of room to grow, but the design has been done for every application I can think of.

[Jimi]

For those who aren't aware, a designer/surfer called Meyerhoffer has made a radical longboard design which apparently some love and some hate. Do a quick Google search to see the design.

[jaffa1949]

I watched two guys in our local longboard comp trying to ride Meyerhoff boards, in difficult and very small conditions, the two boards looked death wobbly like loose truck skate boards, they didn't hold a line that convention longboards did and were completely out classed. (the riders maybe) the guys chose different boards for their reprecharge heats and the riding was much improved.

I might try one one day if I' m bored!

[CLINT]

I think youll find MeyerH doesnt surf and is a interior designer or similar, how he got GSI to promote his boards is amazing.
Sure its all about trying different combos but his are as successful as glueing a pineapple to the nose. Never met anyone who likes the boards buy there are a few on eBay at any time. Thats not really shaping or designing, its Innovative to look at but not functional beyond the basics of float and turn.

[jaffa1949]

I think a pineapple is more functional than a Meyerhoff, ( IMO they look like a backward condom )
They are not even a new shape the tucked in curve in the rails has been around before, was called either the coke bottle or bottle board.
Unfortunately people tend to believe the advertising about a board even it they doubt other advertising

[CLINT]

Oh Yeah Jaffa I forgot about Frank Latta making Bottle Boards years ago ! Any new conbination might work but those boards dont.
How in hell did he convince GSI to make those boards ???? GSI counldve gone to any shaper or school kid and asked for a futuristic design to manufacture.
Getting back to the rant about design, I think plastics will play a bigger part in board construction.

[kitesurfer]

I tend to steer clear of epoxy. Not for any performance related reason, but because when they do get damaged they are harder to repair.

It's identical to polyester - just use epoxy resin instead of sun-cure poly.

Rough up the area, then smear on the epoxy, and sand smooth after it's set.

The key thing with epoxy is that it needs to be mixed well, and at the correct hardener/base ratio otherwise it won't set.

Also it's bad for your hands.

Basically polyester is idiot proof to use and it goes off in minutes in the warm sun. I prefer especially when ding repairing as i can be back in the water 30 mins after a fairly serious ding whereas epoxy even when mixed right takes much much longer to reach a sensible hardness by which you can sand it.

KS

[jaffa1949]

How in hell did he convince GSI to make those boards ???? GSI counldve gone to any shaper or school kid and asked for a futuristic design to manufacture.

A thought "if you can fake sincerity you've got it made "

Plastics are a good chance , even better if they can come from recycling, the fashion needs to over white under whatever coatings.

[garbarrage]

Basically polyester is idiot proof to use and it goes off in minutes in the warm sun. I prefer especially when ding repairing as i can be back in the water 30 mins after a fairly serious ding whereas epoxy even when mixed right takes much much longer to reach a sensible hardness by which you can sand it.

KS

It needs to be idiot proof, all my repair attempts tend to leave me covered in glass-fibre and resin, and my board looking like Frankenstein. Aside from length of time to set is it any harder to get the mix right?

[Verde]

It needs to be idiot proof, all my repair attempts tend to leave me covered in glass-fibre and resin, and my board looking like Frankenstein. Aside from length of time to set is it any harder to get the mix right?

Getting the mix right with epoxy should be really easy. Unlike polyester resins epoxy resins have a set resin to hardener ratio, most commonly it is 1:1 or 2:1. The most important part is to MIX THOROUGHLY. You should mix for at least 4-5 minutes and make sure to "fold" it in on its self. If mixed to vigorously epoxy is prone to forming tiny bubbles, which shouldn't affect strength, but will look ugly. Also according to Resin Research, epoxy is 1/50th as toxic as polyester. I love epoxy and I think its the way forward

[garbarrage]

Getting the mix right with epoxy should be really easy. Unlike polyester resins epoxy resins have a set resin to hardener ratio, most commonly it is 1:1 or 2:1. The most important part is to MIX THOROUGHLY. You should mix for at least 4-5 minutes and make sure to "fold" it in on its self. If mixed to vigorously epoxy is prone to forming tiny bubbles, which shouldn't affect strength, but will look ugly. Also according to Resin Research, epoxy is 1/50th as toxic as polyester. I love epoxy and I think its the way forward

If that's the case I'll seriously consider one for my next board. May end up with a PU as looking for a bargain, so will take the first one I see that fits the bill, but won't be counting epoxy out. Cheers for the reply.

[kitesurfer]

It needs to be idiot proof, all my repair attempts tend to leave me covered in glass-fibre and resin, and my board looking like Frankenstein. Aside from length of time to set is it any harder to get the mix right?

Hahaha i can just picture it now. The ratio of hardener to resin for polyester and MEKP should be between 1-2% by volume depending upon temperature. This can be critical when glassing a whole board as too much MEKP(hardener) will cause the resin to gell in sometimes 5-10 mins. Not leaving you enough time to complete the glassing job especially if you haven't done much glassing before. However a little too much hardener when doing ding repairs rarely makes issues.

KS

[kitesurfer]

. Unlike polyester resins epoxy resins have a set resin to hardener ratio, most commonly it is 1:1 or 2:1. The most important part is to MIX THOROUGHLY. You should mix for at least 4-5 minutes and make sure to "fold" it in on its self. If mixed to vigorously epoxy is prone to forming tiny bubbles, which shouldn't affect strength, but will look ugly. Also according to Resin Research, epoxy is 1/50th as toxic as polyester. I love epoxy and I think its the way forward

When i use epoxy i mix for the lenght of a song on the radio and then half of the next song. Epoxy resins might not smell like polyester and they may well be less toxic but i am under no illusions that putting it on your conrflakes in the morning is not a good idea.
I always wear a fume mask and gloves when using these kinds of chemicals.

KS

[Verde]

yeah I still wear a mask too, but when I glass a board in my garage with polyester my whole house reeks, but not with epoxy. I dont think epoxy is any harder to use than polyester, its just different and thats what messes people up

[CLINT]

How in hell did he convince GSI to make those boards ???? GSI counldve gone to any shaper or school kid and asked for a futuristic design to manufacture.

A thought "if you can fake sincerity you've got it made "

Plastics are a good chance , even better if they can come from recycling, the fashion needs to over white under whatever coatings.

Jaffa, after reading your comment I put a message on another forum asking for people who would be interested in making a new surfcraft and I got a reply from a surfboard maker whos a CNC expert (with machine) and another from a creative guy who makes his own boards from longboards to bodyboards. After a few emails were looking at getting some type of craft built by high pressure thermo forming a recycled plastic called ASA, thats similar to ABS. CNC finishing the design and then hand finishing it with artwork and leash and finplugs.
ASA is UV stabilised, recyclable, positive bouyancy, virtually bulletproof. No foam shaping, no glassing, outsource the major labor to Aussie companies so we dont need a factory.
Probably start with a limited run of prone boards due to economics and work it up from there.
I wanted my name on the boards but the others said my name in capitals looks a bit like another word-
' C*NT '

[jaffa1949]

Clint, build a better surfboard out of new materials and if it fulfills the average surfers expectation or even better the beginners expectation you might have the beginning of a business. Surfing companies are now about the fashion of sports rather than the need of sports so......who knows.
About your name I wouldn't say that but I thought it about the capitalisation . Clean up your Avatar

[CLINT]

Jaffa, at worst its a few Aussie guys coming up with something new and were not selling the house to do it either, we plan to do a run of 10 first and then 50 if the first 10 sell. Certainly new materials and techniques might appeal to those thinking outside the Thruster.
On the other hand using my name CLINT might be a great marketing angle, I already use it on the surfboards Ive shaped since 2000. How about "I like CLINT" t-shirts ? Sport and fashion and its just as brainless as the F.C.U.K clothing label from Britain !!

[garbarrage]

Interested to see what you come up with. Have long thought the materials used in making surfboards have been outdated. I wouldn't be worried about surf industry fashion etc. A good product will nearly always sell.