Mal or Minimal what is the true difference

[Tassiedevil]

I have already raised this question in Sambotics topic in surf lessons but after seeing this asked about a million times through various surf forums thought it needed to be a topic on it's on .

When comparing same for same what is the true performance difference in a longboard (9footer plus) to a minimal (8foot) . By same for same I mean a cut down version of the same board eg. In the McTavish range a UFO to a UF8 or the Fireball to the 8 ball.

.For a lightweight such as myself weighing about 70 kg wringing wet of average surfing ability what difference would I expect in areas such as paddling ease , wave catching ability , surfing in small waves (1-3 foot) , surfing in waves 4 foot plus , duck diving , turning .
I understand for bigger bodied people you require the extra size for extra floatation but obviously for me and other lightweights that is not the case so for us it is all about the performance difference . Looking forward to hearing the thoughts from those more experienced in the longboards

[jaffa1949]

This is the Jaffa take on this , there is a profile of rail outline placing of wide point and rocker that is a mal/ longboard, with variations of fin set up etc, a longboard had in its original configuration reached limitations that surfers around the world ( virtually California Australia and Hawaii then) were transcending in performance, shortening happened to get the boards to do what the surfers were able to do! Pocket history
.

The idea of parallel rails and other aspects of longboard design became outmoded and wouldn't fit a short template.

To cut to the chase with the question, pretty much the giant longboards of 10 11 12 feet are superceded, and are a rarity except among big wave paddling older guys.10 foot can be for a large heavyweight guy or a dedicated nose rider using the log weight to aid his cause.

9ft seems to be the norm and the weight and configurations within that length vary greatly but also the plan shape is always similar.
This shape can be shortened to IMO to about 8ft and still be a long board, mal, minimal below that I think they are long boards for children.
They might call them fun boards or other names but as they go shorter the rail lines begin to blend to Fish, Simmons, planing hull, and all sorts of oddities, some are repeating experiments that came and went in the short board evolution.

Some facts to compare, long = more volume easier to paddle as long as the nose rocker is not too great, harder to duck dive (bigger cork) especially for lightweight surfers, can be surfed in as big a surf as you wish, get slightly more problematical in steeper section take offs.
Short arc turns of short boards more difficult. Nose ride better especially with light weights.
Shorter lighter long boards beyond the oxymoron can be easier to chuck around in turn and things but if you have the technique and skills this translates up in length, 8ft is usually the minimum length allowed in longboard competition ( often has its own division)

Each board sold is a little exercise in commercialism, they all promise a wonderous quality of ride and increase in the rider's ability. All BS except for what you can get out of a board by your own abilities, ( some boards are dogs though)
The average rider won't notice a great deal of performance difference between the generics of the shortening of the McTavish boards except in paddle power!

Long winded as usual but hope it helps!

[Tassiedevil]

Thanks for the reply Jaffa as usual your posts are full of useful info .
In short I guess what you are saying is for small waves and easier paddling get a bigger board . For better performance ( turning ability , duck diving ,steeper drops) the 8 footers are easier to use but the 9 footers are still quite capable . Did I get that right .
The nose riding part , I must admit having always been a short boarder I never had taken into consideration

[Tassiedevil]

Along the same thread have seen some board makers producing longboards with a square nose .anyone aware of any advantages / disadvantages of these compared to the standard nose .

[jaffa1949]

Tassie don't get distracted by the square nose it is mostly to facilitate nose riding at 5s and 10s and hang heels level, when the surfers at that level get fancy then having more nose area is an aid. For mere mortals nothing noticeable!

Your mission should you accept it a your weight and size and experience is to take the 8fter to the best performance you can achieve.
Gloves or no gloves, the brand I use are called Mirage. Hey they also keep you hands warmer in the Tassie winter.

[Tassiedevil]

Looking forward to the arrival of the gloves . It makes sense they must help or why would ducks have webbed feet . Though I have to admit last winter after losing my old gloves I had it figured after 30 minutes my hands started to go blue , 45 minutes they were going numb . Good timing device and saved on having to wear a watch .
The square nosed boards sure look different . The idea of nose riding ,hanging 5 or hanging 10 is totally foreign to me should be fun , can't wait to give it a go . Was offered the loan of a 9 footer over Easter but was having too much fun on my fish so chickened out . Kicking myself since .

[jaffa1949]

Quick! review your anatomy of ducks they may have webbed feet but not webbed hands!
Get used to dirty looking wax and being though an oddity!

[Tassiedevil]

Ha ha will have to check out the next duck I see .
Looking an oddity is nothing new this summer I started wearing a rip curl surf cap to protect the top of my head from the sun now that my thinning hair no longer does the job for me . Got a few strange looks .
In winter here I have the beaches to myself ,besides the odd fairy penguin , so should fit right in .

[jaffa1949]

I've got my solar panel covered here and you can see the glove + Long Board.
But no penguins

Too warm for Penguins

[Tassiedevil]

You never know Jaffa I see one escaped from sea world on the gold coast could be heading your way now .
I love my rip curl cap keeps my head and my face from getting sunburnt plus as an added bonus have you noticed when you duck dive the cap blocks the water going into your face . Also are designed so there is no loss of vision or sound . My winter hood on the other hand does a great job of keeping my ears warm but I hate not being able to hear what is going on around me .
Is that your home break you are surfing at ?

[Tassiedevil]

Been meaning to tell you Jaffa re our conversation about paralysis ticks a few months ago . On a recent trip to the east coast we picked up a little fairy penguin with paralysis caused by a tick on his neck .He had washed up on the beach after heading back out to see after nesting I assume . Unfortunately he was in a pretty bad way, as you can imagine after being paralysed in the ocean ,and after a couple of days he passed away much to the disappointment of the kids and the wife .

[jaffa1949]

Is that your home break you are surfing at ?

No that was a trip to the Playgrounds area in the Mentawais, the break is called Beng Bengs after a ubiquitous Indonesian chocolate bar.
So there are no penguins like the caption says.

We have the fairy penguins here, they have an offshore colony on Montague Island and some smaller groups on Gabo Isalnd and some smaller non named rocky outcrops,mainland no, foxes dog, cats have finished them off.

I've enclosed a picture for our Overseas posters. Especially the Dutch brothers who think they saw a penguin in Holland, Escaped or very lost

The smallest penguin

[Roy Stewart]

I don't agree with jaffa, as the mal is actually a shortboard shape.

[jaffa1949]

I don't agree with jaffa, as the mal is actually a shortboard shape.

The 16ft toothpickers in Australia in 1956 would agree with Roy about them being a shortboard.
The lifesavers of the beaches where Tommy Zahn, Greg Noll demonstrated their boards had to eat their disbelieving words as the waves were carved up in a way never seen before on the balsa boards the lifeguard bought out from California, Tommy and Greg were part of the Malibu crew of that time and so Aussies called the boards "Malibus".
Most people call a longboard in Australia a malibu,regardless of any shape or variation a bit generic like sandshoe.
Even back in the sixties, there was some different names for shapes and where the wide point was and the rail and tail configuration.

But in the end all, malibus or long boards, I'm not quite up to how Roy is defining the shape as a short board shape , it certainly is compared to the length of his boards.

AS for minimals a cute play on words, probably other shapes are better in a lot of circumstances.
I really think a lot of the retro craze and the reappearance of "designs" that fell by the wayside, is except for very few experimenters, is just a cynical sales exercise , for those silly enough to try and be fashionable in surfing.
There is a big notice me factor for a lot of surfers and the clothes , board and board coloured designs and stickers are the most important part for them, the surfing to go early to "tricks"rather that the basis of surfing.
Another day another soapbox

[Roy Stewart]

I'm just saying that from a physics point of view parallel rails are more suited to shortboards than to longboards, which is the opposite of what you said.

[jaffa1949]

I'm just saying that from a physics point of view parallel rails are more suited to shortboards than to longboards, which is the opposite of what you said.

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I'm thinking about this and I am curious, as the chronic seems to have a length of parallel rail as opposed to a parallel point ( or at best a very short parallel section at the widest point and then a curve to each end.
The physics is what interests me the way you are showing it and maybe then the simmons shapes would be the high end performers?

I think the shortboard shapes I'm am illustrating here are used to enhance the contest needed performance criteria which neither you nor I subscribe to.
I could even be arguing the opposite side of the same coin with you.

[Tassiedevil]

Thais for the advice Jaffa and Roy . Must admit not being into shaping boards some of it went way way over my head .
Anyway went out last week grabbed a secondhand Mal . It's a glen Darcy ( south African make ) 9 ft by 22 inches by 2 inches bit of an oldie about 20 years old but in really great nick . If I can work out how to I will upload some pics ( any tips ) my plan is to get used to this one then grab a minimal high performance board for the bigger days , keep this one for the small , real small days , and keep my short board for the days when the waves are a bit steeper or I feel like jumping back on a short board .
All I need now is some waves so I can try it out

[garbarrage]

Looking at that wave, I could nearly cry Jaffa, this spring has sucked for swell. Been a long time since I've seen anything even remotely close to that for quality.

[jaffa1949]

My surfing drives people to tears
Unfortunately that was in 2010 in the Mentawais, should I say fortunately as we had 20 days like that with a 17 second swell, even the small breaks had power.
The reality has be far fewer days like that than that period at my home break but like most breaks there were still some smokers!
I present a photo album of some shots I've taken down here and elsewhere in photos.
Have a look!

[garbarrage]

You're a big lad Jaffa so didn't want to mention the poo stance.

Epic wave though, looks like it may chuck a lip inside? The way the swell has been here I'd settle for that shape at half that size.