Second surfboard

[one more dude]

Hi all,

I am at the end of my beginner level (which took about 6 months to get to). I'm trying to conquer green waves, do turns etc. Until very recently I thought that whatever I could not do was due to my technique. But it turns out that the board may be at fault too, and I might have to think about changing it, or so I've been told.

My main difficulty is the paddling. Eve though I paddle as hard as I can, it is often not enough.

I'm currently riding a mini-mal 7'6 (I'm 180cm and about 85k), which is a fine board to my untrained eye. It's fast, buoyant and easy enough. But it's very heavy compared with custom boards. I've been told that it slows me down when I'm paddling for a wave, and I should get a light and buoyant custom.

I'm eyeing 2 boards at the moment: a shortboard and a sort of an in-between minimal and shortboard. Both are 7'0 (not sure if a surfboard can be called a shortboard if it's 7'0 but it looks like one anyway). They are both very light, wide and thick. Not ridiculously wide or thick, but wider and thicker than your average short surfboard.

What are your thoughts? I know it's even harder to paddle take a wave on a shorter surfboard, but I was told that since it's thick and buoyant, it'll be fine.

Cheers!

[jaffa1949]

Hi One More, I'm thinking that you may be overestimating your progress a little, the amount you weigh and the size of the board you are currently riding ( a picture of the board would help) which should be adequate, sort of indicates to me that you are still pretty new at paddling power.
Green waves require a different approach than just matching the pace of the white water and I think that if you are struggling on the current board you will more than likely be struggling on the other boards you are considering.
UNLESS the current board is waterlogged and is heavy because of that, my suggestion is see if the people who are advising you have a board of the sort that you are considering, borrow it and have a try.
See if the place that is selling the boards has some test boards, try it before you buy it.
Don't be disheartened the second phase learning period is harder and longer with many more factors involved in surfing the actual wave.

Let me tell you about a custom board too, you will not find them on a rack sitting shiny waiting for a buyer.
A custom is when you know your needs, you go and talk to the shaper about where and what you surf he eyeballs you and asks about rails fins rocker etc and then he shapes especially for you. That is a custom and when you order your first one it is so exciting, actually I get excited at every custom frothing with anticipation
The boards you are looking at are stock boards and they are always quite good if you go to a reputable surf shop.
Stock boards can be made either by a local shaper or by a company in Asia who bases the shapes on profiles sent from some local shapers or companies, there are differences. Not only in price but often in quality of construction.

Take care of your hard earned dollars.

[one more dude]

Thanks Jaffa for the detailed reply.

What you are saying is what I sort of went through in my head as well... Okay, asking to borrow a board makes a lot of sense. I haven't done it yet because their test board would be different from the ones I'm looking at, but ok, I'll do that anyway.

When I was saying "custom" I borrowed the term from the surf shop guys here in NSW. I kind of thought that what people usually mean by "custom" is a board made according to some specifications, but not necessarily mine.

I was actually hoping to elicit an answer along the lines of "no, a shortboard, even a thick one, is definitely not the way to go" or "yeah, it usually helps". Since it did not, apparently it's not clear cut, so the answer is "depends". To sum up the discussion, I'll try a board, and see how I go.

Thanks again.

[jaffa1949]

Thanks Jaffa for the detailed reply.

What you are saying is what I sort of went through in my head as well... Okay, asking to borrow a board makes a lot of sense. I haven't done it yet because their test board would be different from the ones I'm looking at, but ok, I'll do that anyway.

When I was saying "custom" I borrowed the term from the surf shop guys here in NSW. I kind of thought that what people usually mean by "custom" is a board made according to some specifications, but not necessarily mine.

I was actually hoping to elicit an answer along the lines of "no, a shortboard, even a thick one, is definitely not the way to go" or "yeah, it usually helps". Since it did not, apparently it's not clear cut, so the answer is "depends". To sum up the discussion, I'll try a board, and see how I go.

Thanks again.

One More, where are you based roughly? It's possible I know someone or a shop that would give you good advice, let me know

[one more dude]

One More, where are you based roughly? It's possible I know someone or a shop that would give you good advice, let me know

Sure, would appreciate it. I'm based in Sydney, and I usually go to the Northern beaches, but sometimes I go to Maroubra as well.

[jaffa1949]

One more I made one basic typo in my first post to your thread, I think you are overestimating your progress.
In clear cut terms you should be able to do all those things like turn and ride the face of the wave on a minimal only the weight may be against you and unless you can do that on the board you are riding then the issue is your skills, you will certainly get a boost out of getting a new board but your level of skill will still be lacking.

However I'd talk to the guys in one of the Manly surf shop, I know some there have test boards, try what your thinking of and then go to the other shops try to talk to someone who has some knowledge not just the desire to sell you something take your old board in and talk seriously, get a good basic all round shape with volume and fair width if you wish to change don't go below 7ft at this stage as if you think paddling is hard now the smaller you go the harder it will be.

But IMO at this stage unless your board is an absolute dog I would work harder to do the basic riding on it and then change as you begin to know what you really need.

[drowningbitbybit]

One more tip.... you'll struggle to get a green wave at maroubra. It's a fast, heavy, dumping type of wave (unless you know what you're doing) and paddling speed and timing is absolutely critical.
Stick to somewhere much more forgiving like Manly on the northern beaches, or hit Cronulla down in the shire - you'll find you improve much quicker than trying to paddle into the shore break at the 'bra.

[one more dude]

Hi Jaffa, Drowning,

Thanks Jaffa, I actually understood that you meant "overestimated". Listen, you could be right, although I'd rather you be wrong! My board is not an absolute dog, I think it's a reasonable surfboard (SunRide). And it's not me who came up with the idea that I should get a new board... to be honest, I liked this idea - well, who wouldn't be excited getting a new board!

There is actually no question that the board will boost my skills - it certainly won't - but if it gets me there a little faster, and as an added bonus makes the whole experience more pleasurable, I'm happy to trade my old board... if not, there is no point, I'll stick to mine for another 6 months.

So the plan is still the same: I'll try a new board and see how I go.

By the way, I noticed it's a lot harder to paddle when the tide is going out - does it make sense to you? The currents are stronger etc.? It is the easiest to paddle when the tide is high or when the tide is going in.

One more thing... I'm most of the time sitting on a wave shoulder. I need space, don't want to get in the way etc. I'm sitting a bit in front of the others, so if no one is riding a wave, I can see it and I can still attempt to go for it... is there a better strategy perhaps?

Drowning: I only rarely go to Maroubra, most of the time I'm in Manly or Dee Why.

Cheers!

[jaffa1949]

The Sunride is a reasonable start up board I looked it up and that should do you for a be able to surf adequately
Now I grew up at Dee Why and learnt to surf there.
The point at this stage is out of the question, look to the basin but it will be crowded with young grommet hot rats head up north of the Surf Club towards Long Reef, No mans' land or the pole there are lots of breaks on each bank up that way, be aware of rips there, some of the breaks won't be so crowded and could be easy enough.
Collaroy can also be be a good learning beach.
Stick with the plan to try a few boards.
BTW applause for being considerate around other surfers.

For catching green waves you need to match and pick a steeper part of the wave, you can paddle slightly at an angle away from the breaking part, but really commit to the paddle, unlike white water catching you don't just need to get a little speed to allow the wave to push you, you have to paddle hard to get over the edge of the wave to engage with gravity and pick up more speed, beginners often stop paddling at the first feeling of a little movement from the wave, several more strong strokes are needed!

Lots and lots of surfing, this is the only way, get your hands on every surf craft you can, learn to read and ride waves, bodysurf understand the speed and timing of waves, this give you that critical timing.
Most of all have fun

[one more dude]

Thanks.

[one more dude]

Hi,

Update: tried a new board, 6'10, 21, 2 3/4. Plenty of volume. I like it - no dramatic skill improvement but feels good. Duck-diving is easier (not that I'm good at it, but it is easier). Popping up is thankfully not harder than on my mini-mal. Paddling I think is easier although it's difficult to tell so far. The only thing is that the sweet spot is a little harder to find, or maybe it's because the board is new to me. Also, I tend to lean too much backwards when I'm up so I'm losing steam quickly - need to lean more forward. I did not have that problem on the mini-mal, in fact I could actually move both of my feet forward. Don't think I can do it on this board as it's shorter.

Overall, while I don't think that it will boost my level, I think it's the right board for me.

Thanks for the tips. One other problem with the green waves is that you actually need to recognise which wave to go for. Not always that easy... I guess I'll learn with time.

Cheers!

[Katsura]

How do you define the different levels? ie when you call yourself 'at the end of your beginner level' what do u measure against?

[one more dude]

Well, I would say that:
- can catch whitewash easily
- can generally get out in the back, although there are times when it's hard and I can only get out once or twice during a session. Usually it's when the waves are messy.
- there have been 3-4 times that I could turn, sort of, no idea how it looked. Always have to lean forward, otherwise I've got no speed. Not sure what kind of wave it was, reforms, greens etc. Caught them by semi-accident. Feels good though.
- just today I was able to get to the beach and go around a complete beginner with a foamy.
- more in control of the board than before
- what else... learning to duck-dive to get out easier. Trying to go for a surf in all sorts of conditions (as long as I feel safe) to learn more about the waves. Learning to paddle correctly. Still need to remind myself to be in the correct position. Still a long way to go.

An intermediate for me is someone who can catch some green waves easily (say, good shape and up to 3ft on Australian scale), can control speed better, who can go front side and back side equally easily, go up and down the face (I think people do it to drop or pick up speed, but looks nice), knows how to do decent duck-diving so getting out is easy.

[Katsura]

Good for ya.

The reason I brought this up is, we need a set of common measured standard for the diff skill levels - everyone have their own definition of beginner, intermediate and advanced. So when different people chime in on a topic, it can get 'lost in translation' quickly.

So what do you say guys, shall we define a common set of skill standards and post it somewhere on the site so people can measure against a common scale?

(The same goes for wave size, people either underestimate or over estimate it).