Nose Concave Question

[kielsun]

Hi Everybody,

I've been lurking around the forum for a while and have enjoyed reading everyone's posts. That said, I'm wondering if you all could provide some insight into an issue I'm having with my board.

I ride a 9'8" Anderson Josh Farberow I. It's a pintail with a good deal of nose concave and a single glass on fin (10.5" height x 7" base). I got a great deal on it second-hand and it's my first board since pretty much being out of surfing for 6 years. I'm not a true beginner and I catch and ride my share of waves, make a smooth turn or two, and walk up board, but I don't do any noseriding yet.

All of that said, I'm having trouble getting the board to trim while paddling in without the nose wanting to really dig in and either stop my momentum altogether and/or slow me down a great deal. Could this mostly be cured by arching my back a bit more and focusing on getting up quicker, or I am the owner of a board that doesn't really suit my needs? I don't plan on noseriding a whole lot anytime soon, as I can only get to the beach 2-3 times/month, and the previous owner of the board is actually begging me to sell it back to him, so it wouldn't be tough to unload. I do like the board once I'm actually on a wave, but am wondering if I'd be better off with a more traditional log with less nose concave. OR should I stick it out and be happy that my board offers me some room to grow? What do you think? Thanks for reading and for any help you can offer!

[Roy Stewart]

You are in malibu territory otherwise known as the Egyptian Room of Doom.

Get rid of the board and .....

[Roy Stewart]

...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybMnzGqb1NA

[jaffa1949]

Hi Everybody,

I've been lurking around the forum for a while and have enjoyed reading everyone's posts. That said, I'm wondering if you all could provide some insight into an issue I'm having with my board.

I ride a 9'8" Anderson Josh Farberow I. It's a pintail with a good deal of nose concave and a single glass on fin (10.5" height x 7" base). I got a great deal on it second-hand and it's my first board since pretty much being out of surfing for 6 years. I'm not a true beginner and I catch and ride my share of waves, make a smooth turn or two, and walk up board, but I don't do any noseriding yet.

All of that said, I'm having trouble getting the board to trim while paddling in without the nose wanting to really dig in and either stop my momentum altogether and/or slow me down a great deal. Could this mostly be cured by arching my back a bit more and focusing on getting up quicker, or I am the owner of a board that doesn't really suit my needs? I don't plan on noseriding a whole lot anytime soon, as I can only get to the beach 2-3 times/month, and the previous owner of the board is actually begging me to sell it back to him, so it wouldn't be tough to unload. I do like the board once I'm actually on a wave, but am wondering if I'd be better off with a more traditional log with less nose concave. OR should I stick it out and be happy that my board offers me some room to grow? What do you think? Thanks for reading and for any help you can offer!

I put your quote in as I feel that the two post after your question did nothing to address what you are asking, I suspect that the major problem is lack of surf time and you have to relearn the take off skills somewhat each time, don't worry about the nose riding yet just get your wave riding skills up to speed , try angling your take off and see how that goes trim occurs when you are riding not, paddling in and it is about matching and taking speed from the wave.
Take off is about you matching the waves speed until its slope gives you the gravity and impetus to take off, practice is the only way.

About the concave if it decreases the length of the board when combined with an increased nose rocker then it is not as an efective paddler , but you say you are catching your share, so I'm inclined to come back to the skill frequency combination.
A nice solution = surf more if you can

[kielsun]

I suspect that the major problem is lack of surf time and you have to relearn the take off skills somewhat each time, don't worry about the nose riding yet just get your wave riding skills up to speed , try angling your take off and see how that goes

Really appreciate the help! All of what you said is right on. It's tough to stay confident (and competent) with such long gaps between sessions and after so much time off. My sessions usually start pretty inconsistently, then I catch a handful of waves, then I get tired! It's tough to get to the beach more often, though, because of the distance. Hope to change that at some point soon! So it sounds like in your opinion the board is just fine for me as long as I'm still catching my share, right? I suppose I'll let the winter play out and if my wave counts don't keep increasing I'll look into trading/selling it back to the guy.

trim occurs when you are riding not, paddling in and it is about matching and taking speed from the wave.
Take off is about you matching the waves speed until its slope gives you the gravity and impetus to take off, practice is the only way.

Thanks. I figured that terminology wasn't quite right!

[Roy Stewart]

Bad advice, the board is crap.

[jaffa1949]

Roy, people are asking for advice not a one line statement of your opinions on the state of the surfing world.
Why not explain why you have that opinion and help the guy out.
You appear to like demeaning a whole genre of boards that are in your opinion "crap" and the many people who ride them successfully.

Your definition of a good successful ride differs entirely from what others wish to do, and that sums it up what they wish to do
So many of the question asked are from a beginners point of view and pedantic extreme views like yours does not help them
Bear in mind too, just how many would be able to afford the style and equipment to surf ala Roy.

Your style of posting is a bit like Escrima parry then riposte, hardly inviting in helping beginners learn.

[kielsun]

Thanks, Jaffa. All told I've actually surfed for years (including a few years before my time away from it), but none of my friends are longboarders so I've basically always had to figure out things on my own, like what different board characteristics and dimensions mean in the real world. I really do appreciate your help.

[Roy Stewart]

Roy, people are asking for advice not a one line statement of your opinions on the state of the surfing world.
Why not explain why you have that opinion and help the guy out.

You appear to like demeaning a whole genre of boards that are in your opinion "crap" and the many people who ride them successfully.

Your definition of a good successful ride differs entirely from what others wish to do, and that sums it up what they wish to do
So many of the question asked are from a beginners point of view and pedantic extreme views like yours does not help them
Bear in mind too, just how many would be able to afford the style and equipment to surf ala Roy.

Your style of posting is a bit like Escrima parry then riposte, hardly inviting in helping beginners learn.

The questioner said that he doesn't intend to noseride, for this reason there is no point in using a noseriding board as this will handicap his surfing in other respects.

That is why I'm demeaning the entire genre of boards.

Your statement: "Your definition of a good successful ride differs entirely from what others wish to do" is incorrect, and is merely a weak attempt to quarantine and marginalise my surfing simply because I don't handicap my surfing with noseriding and other play acting.

Did you ask the questioner for more details of what a successful ride is for him before diving into a stock standard malibucentric answer? no you did not, and your answer assumes that what he wants to do is what the malibu culture expects.

I gave a truthful answer, if the questioner wishes me to elaborate I will.

the bottom line is that if one wants to ride waves rather than just posing on the beach and flapping in the water, the mainstream longboard genre is a bad way to go... they are the most dysfunctional surfboard type ever designed.

.

[Roy Stewart]

During this session with 40 plus surfers out including about 20 malibu riders the Earl 10'6" absolutely cleaned up, it is way more functional than the malibu type, I made over 45 waves and had at least 4 people commenting that i was catching all the waves.... the point is that in was not only catching them but making them, unlike the vast majority of those attempting to use mainstream equipment. That is the norm, malibus don't cut it at all, the concept is based on Joe Quigg's mistake, a fault which the surf industry turned into a supposed virtue and which it has not recovered from as it can't get over the momentum of its own potted history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybMnzGqb1NA&feature=related


Nose concave which doesn't blend through into the middle of the board and then fade out to the tail is a handicap by the way.

The earl 10'6" has a light concave at it's deepest where the wide point of the planshape is.

[Roy Stewart]

So go ahead and demonstrate if you can how the ride above "differs entirely from what others wish to do". ^^^

Your only hope of so doing is to claim that what they wish to do is buy what the magazines tell them to buy so that they can fit in socially, while actually riding waves is a distant second in the priority stakes.

If we are talking about riding waves your thesis is utterly ridiculous!

.

[Roy Stewart]

I'm having trouble getting the board to trim while paddling in without the nose wanting to really dig in and either stop my momentum altogether and/or slow me down a great deal.

I can send you templates which you could take to a shaper who could then make you a board which will completely solve the problem and take your surfing to a much higher, more enjoyable and instinctive level.

On takeoff the board will trim and turn simultaneously, and will take steeper drops with ease while also having superior wave catching ability in gently sloping waves.

None of the other currently available boards will do this... a 'traditional log' will just be a variation of the same theme and will have similar problems... the noseriding criteria ruins them almost completely.

.

[kielsun]

Roy, looks like you're getting tons of fun rides and your and Jaffa's disagreement is actually pretty informative. My initial question was basically whether or not the nose concave was hindering my ability to catch waves. While it's true that I'm catching a handful of waves every time I go out, I wouldn't be here asking the question that I'm asking if everything felt perfect, right? And I do agree with you also, Roy, that other logs may present similar issues, but I also have had a lot of fun on said logs in the past and it seems like one would perhaps present a good alternative to my current board because I'm not doing any noseriding, thus rendering the nose concave useless.

[Roy Stewart]

Well if I had to choose on your behalf from what's available I'd suggest either a big traditional high volume log with soft rails and no concave like Tom Wegener does, or a 'longboard gun' ... the widest one you can find with a good dose of nose lift.

What I'd design for you will outdo either by a large margin but there it is.

Nose rocker is misunderstood people think that low rocker equals early wave entry etc but that's only a small part of the story, as in reality nose rocker doesn't just save one from nosediving it provides large amounts of lift at the transition from paddling speed to planing, this can result in much earlier planing and greater acceleration on takeoff. of course noseriders just don't have it.

The other school of thought is that tail rocker gives the required lift and the nose should be low drag low lift to slide in early. that theory works but is less than ideal in most conditions... although in the right conditions (very soft waves) such boards are a force to be reckoned with on the wave catching front.

[jaffa1949]

Notice Roy there is n slanging I agree about the nose riding conclaves they do not add to agood riding experience for anything other than nose riding.
As for full length conclaves you will if you review see I stated that they too are not conducive to good surfing. Now about that, judging but Keilsun's answer about what he wants , he is no brainwashed sheep victim.
Your board have projection and momentum and the weight and rail and overal configuration makes them great planing boards. There was a fundamental flaw with older longboards which precipitated the shortboard revolution, but so many longboard designs are available now and it is only the imagination of the rider which is limited. You have a unique set of scotomas, and act accordingly, and believe it or not, not many people wish to join your path, you are neither isolated or verbally quarantined just choosing a path that differs in accord with your opinion.

Keilsun if it's financially feasable take up Roy's offer of profiles. Outside of the opposing views there might be some meaning.

View and review Roy's surfing and the YouTube footage of one Roy's boards in Hawaii, let your perceptions judge.
Then look at what you want do and go for it.

BTW my post got a better explanation out of Roy than his discourteous first.

[hunsta]

I was going to ask what the difference between an Earl and a traditional modern longboard, but have since looked at alot of the You tube footage and was impressed by its ability to catch small waves. Interesting design too. Maybe something to look at when I become a gun longboarder.

[Rickyroughneck]

...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybMnzGqb1NA

Better start saving

On topic, noseriders aren't the best boards for ease of riding. In my experience the more performance orientated logs are a lot easier to ride (they can turn from the middle and handle steeper drops). For simple wave catching an allrounder should suffice, but try and make sure it has a bit of nose rocker too.

If you want to carry on using your current board then I would focus on your positioning in the line-up; catch waves earlier and give yourself some time to get up to a good speed when paddling.

[themathteacher]

My initial question was basically whether or not the nose concave was hindering my ability to catch waves.

Not really, the nose concave is too far up the nose of the board to hinder the glide or catching ability of the board. It's more than likely 1) your body placement on the board when paddling or 2) your entry and popoup into the wave as it relates to the shape of the wave.

1) Being too far worward you dig in your nose, and with a scoop, you end up just splashing hard and slowing down. Move back if that is the problem

2a) If you are still a begginer you have a tendency to paddle into a wave, catch it, but wait too long to pop up, poping up on the board after it already went from the top of the wave to the bottom. Work on your pop up, try to land it faster so you can turn the board before getting to the bottom.

2b) If you paddle into a steep wave and don't angle your board at least a little you end up at the bottom. If it's a noseriding board and you don't have a lot of experience you end up trying to make a turn too late and slow down,

Is a scooped out nose ideal for a begginer? No. But it's not the reason you are having problems.