Nose Riding help....

[Deepwaterdesigns]

hey guys,
ive been having a go at trying to get a nose ride going but failing quite spectacularly.
i am riding a 9'0 custom jim phillips single fin and can walk the board to within a foot of the nose, have managed to get 5 toes on the nose once but after a second or two, the nose burries and i end up going arse over xxxxx.

i am wondering if its the board, my technique or maybe the wave its self? ive been riding at cocoa beach wich is a longboard type of wave, the board is a pin tail, 9'0 x 2' 1/2 x 22 and im 180 lbs 5'10 and quite athletic, i can get a good lean back to try and transfer my weight as far back as i can, but still end up digging the nose in and performing a spectacular front flip or superman off the board!

help me out guys, whats going wrong?

[jaffa1949]

AAh the subtle art of noseriding Uncle Jaffa appreciates this problem, in over fifty years of surfing, I would not call myself a fully competent noserider, I can get there and get back but have hung five at lot less than I've been forward, and hang tens even less, this occurred even when my weight was a lot less.
But this is what I found... for a heavy guy noseriding is difficult in weak surf you need a quality small or slightly bigger surf with a little push in power behind the wave, you need to be smooth and fluid in your movement forward, cross stepping is better because it is balanced ,a shuffle works but bumps the flow around, you can set up with a tail stall and then run forward and hang in that period of acceleration, don't run out of control or you'll head straight off the nose.
Learn what I call the woggle, where you are on the nose and you woggle to slip sideways down the face of the wave to a slightly more powerful position in the wave curve and you can hold your line ( old masters of this were Phil Edwards and Miki Dora watch and learn) learn to read the wave with your feet the fluctuations of power and that's where you get the feel of when and how much to back off the nose.
I have identified the sweet spot on all of my longboards where the board gives continual acceleration I often woggle from that spot too, when the board feels balanced and able to take an expedition forward I go and I mostly get back just part of my set of surfing things, I use the nose functionally not as a trick I do cheater fives and head dips forward in the section
I had the pleasure of surfing at my local with six of the top women longboarders in the world last year, I was one of three guys out in a good 3ft day.
I called the girls two strokes they were so light two strokes was all it took for them to catch the wave and two dainty steps to the nose for them. AAArgh
Me, thirty paddles and lumber, lumber to the front but we all had fun and enjoy the company, showing off my home break at its longboard best and of course the view. Bloody hell my daughter is older than any of them. FUN

Tips; watch as many big guys who noseride well ,the board is OK but try a longer fin that's a little stiffer and hopefully Cocoa beach has some grunt.
Also a question comes to mind. Are you just trying to noseride when you think of it or is the wave indicating that a noseride is an option?
Just that thought could make difference.

BTW please don't make the mistake that longboard waves should only be slop, look for good conditions to ride, longboards under the right feet can handle jst about anything a short board does just differently.
Growing the right feet is the trick

This is from a local contest with a guy about your weight in surf much like what I imagine Cocoa beach is like, you will notice that the entire tail of the board is engaged and being held by suction and it is pulling the top of the wave down upon the board and the weight balances the guy up front.
There is no bend back just good positioning
If your tail doesn't suck.........

I hope your rails suck

[Deepwaterdesigns]

Hey Jaffa,
Thank you for the help, the information is really useful.
The conditions i was surfing in yesterday were a little on the weak side and had no serious grunt in them, although it was clean with a good workable section, but i think it wasnt quite powerful enough.
i will have to re-try when i get home at saunton

by no means do i think that a longboard wave is just slop, i meant in the sense that it is more suited to longboards than shortboards as it doesnt really break until much closer to shore, is quite fat and isnt very steep most of the time...there are those special days though!

in answer to your questions, i was trying to get to the nose only once i felt i had enough speed and the board was gliding nicely, but i didnt get the rail sucked in as you described above. im also doing more of a shuffle rather than a smooth cross step, maybe i should get this technique down before trying toes on the nose again...

the fin i currently have installed is a pro teck power flex 9" center fin, but i have seen fins that are specifically designed for nose riding with a larger surface area, maybe this is worth investing in...but will it effect the manueverability of my board? also, i have plugs to fit side fins, would adding 4" side fins help or hinder my nose riding atempts?

Thanks again for the advice Jaffa, on a side note, even though im a heavy guy, im not quite shaped like our friend in the picture above i only have a 10% body fat and am quite athletic and nimble, so im hoping that will help me progress too

[jaffa1949]

Hey Jaffa,
the fin i currently have installed is a pro teck power flex 9" center fin, but i have seen fins that are specifically designed for nose riding with a larger surface area, maybe this is worth investing in...but will it effect the manueverability of my board? also, i have plugs to fit side fins, would adding 4" side fins help or hinder my nose riding atempts?

Hi DWD with the fin thing the length is probably OK but try a slightly stiffer fin than the proteck, a slightly bigger base can hold well or a bulb on the tip of the fin that's wept back.
Maneouverability will change but the old school way was turn from the back and then move forward for trim and then to the nose, a little tweaking of the fin position in the box will help that. I consider not using the side bites if you are exchanging vertical turning for nose work or going down to widowmaker style and size side bites if you are trying to combine the best of both worlds
BTW Is Saunton a UK break or an east coast USA break. Hope the move goes well

I googled Saunton found it's near Croyde. I often check the UK cameras as I go to visit family in. Planning a Bore trip and of course the coast.

[billie_morini]

Jaffa,
this is great. Thank you. (I'm not able even attempt nose riding, but have been curious about it. Now my curiosity has been satisfied.)

When are you coming to Santa barbara?
billie

P.S. photo does look like Cocoa Beach

[Deepwaterdesigns]

hey jaffa,
Thanks for the advice, ill try a stiffer fin on the board too, i think that the board i was riding was designed as more of a performance longboard rather than for nose riding, maybe ill try a propper nose riding specific board and see how i get on with that.

ill only be in the UK for a few weeks before heading out to hong kong, then im back home for another week, then its off to bermuda, so i never get the time to really get a certain break dialled in just right before its off to somewhere else. also means i usually never have 1 particular board to ride either so i never seem to get that down pat either. but ill hopefully spend a few days at saunton trying to get it right.

if you are ever in the UK then definately head up to the North devon area, there are some top notch breaks all within a 30 min drive, Saunton, croyde, wollacombe, putsborough... so you will definately be able to find something to ride. just wish i was at home more to really explore the area.

ill let you know how the next experiment in nose riding goes.... the one bonus is i usually end up with the wipeout of the day

[DaveRocks]

I'm not CJ Nelson but a few thing you can't ignore about standing on the nose. Its not the center of lift of the surfboard, you can't stay there for long and ugly old boards are the best craft to do it on. If you were to plan a new trick called noseriding you would most likely consider the first two factors. The centre of lift is roughly about a third - quart of the way from the nose, at the most. So getting three quarters of the way is easy. To get to the cool part you have to counterbalance your weight or put the leverage point closer to the nose.

That means there are at least 2 ways to rider the nose of a surfboard. The second is the easiest to try and the hardest to keep going. surfing very close to straight to the beach put slow the board and get most of the board at the back of the wave. The leverage point is then about where the crest of the wave is. Walk forward quickly and try to keep the board from falling of the back. When the board catches speed again you will need to step back. ( by the way the only reason you cross step is because shuffling is too slow).

The second was once called setting the rail. Really it means sinking the board into the wave. Its easier to do on boards that have no release point on the rails at the back of the board. Most old 1960s boards had this feature. That feature wasn't essential but it is easier to do with those boards, a lot of other stuff wasn't easy. Getting the back of the board in the wave to act as a cantilever is done by positioning the back of the board in the crest of the wave so the water flows over it. You can stall and move forward as the wave catches you or use the forward rail of the board to cut into the crest as you trim. Either way you need to be travelling at the same speed as the curl, high on the face, in a steepish section. Not so easy to stay at that spot on the wave.

You need to feel what's going on at the back of the board to do this trick. I think once you know how any trick works, you get a lot more feel for it.

Hope this helps if you are still seeking hints.

Cheers, Dave

[jaffa1949]

that's really the trick, setting the rail.That picture I posted shows the rail at the tail fully set and thats why a guy of that weight can ride the nose.
Being on the nose is one surfings great feelings BTW.
Thanks Dave keep rocking

[Roy Stewart]

The best advice I can give is to avoid going there at all, being on the nose is a drag !

People say that they like it but that's just social conditioning.

[Rickyroughneck]

The best advice I can give is to avoid going there at all, being on the nose is a drag !

People say that they like it but that's just social conditioning.

What if one likes walking the board, but not necessarily spending time there.

Also, if one can be socially conditioned to be happy; is that so bad?

[Roy Stewart]

Social conditioning via scientific marketing doesn't make people as happy as they pretend to be, it's merely a veneer which hides the results of the real engine of social conditioning: namely the 'psychology of depression' which is used by the corporations to make you buy stuff.

I'm all for other people noseriding actually, as it handicaps them in the water but occasionally I tell the truth about it for moral reasons.

[jaffa1949]

Social Conditioning in Surfing absolutely
Ancient Hawaii, ancient solid wooden boards certain types reserved for Royalty and lesser noble , other types for the ordinary Hawaiians, right through from Paipo to the grand boards. Social conditioning by Taboos and and enforce by various forms of death. Fear of punishment
Missionaries come social conditioning by new taboos fear of "God" and being naked and shamed. Surfing almost dies.
Revitalisation of surfing beach boys style holidaying mainland Americans annex the country and begin to take up "surfing"
Gaining the $$ by teaching rich tourists to surf or have the experience ( what has changed?)
Surfing in Australia hollow toothpick surf skis some could ride them standing rather than sitting, control of the beaches to prevent drowning quasi military control. Social conditioning lifesavers hold the power conform
Beat generation surfing in California a non conformist activity enforced by the surfers initiation rites in order to belong (Social conditioning them and us.)
Clothing and behaviours war surplus great coats duffel coats absolute avoidance of wearing suits or establishment clothes.
!956 in Australia Californian lifeguard team arrives demonstrates Californian longboarding, malibus , the take up of "surfing lifestyle" and behaviour.
You want to be a surfie behave like this for acceptance, board factories and clothing manufacture begins home made industry expands and becomes the entities of Ripaquikbong etc, lifestyle begins to sold outside surfing Lifestyle envy program.
Corporate take overs and selling out to multinational or becoming one yourself. TV and media advertising further selling to the masses.
The lifestyle selling program reaches everywhere, fashion attitude and sales based on selling to the least discriminating market, puberty stricken kids needing to belong.
All true .
But in this you have a choice, buy because you need a wetsuit or some surfing equipment and a certain type fits your need or buy because it's fashion.
Applies to the entire spectrum of surfing supplies. If you can look beyond the advertising you might make a reasoned choice.
As to what you do on a wave I hear the learners and the young surfers wanting to do the aerial or whatever of the market program.
Sad but true but I have as strong belief that many who discover the underlying essence of surfing eschew the fashion forum and go their own way.
Then those surfers do what they want to do be what they want to be, and do what ever manoeuvre for their own reasons ( CHOICE).

IF you were of the the cashed up appreciative demographic that Roy would like you to be in, he is working to socially condition you to the qualities he ascribes to his boards, and you would ride in the fashion the craft dictates. Roy's bank account would be rightly enhanced and his lifestyle supported.
All appropriate,
Finally are any of the surfing schools of thought entire correct? NO! IS any superior? NO. Are any governed by marketing forces ? All of them but only to the extent you choose.

Even the Luddite who retreats to a cave is effected by social conditioning ( Stimulus response conditioning Response = run away).

End of rant thank you!

[Roy Stewart]

Nice rant Jaffa

[imnprsd]

I have a 10-0 Infinity Noserider and love it in ALL surf conditions, but when I came to noseriding here's how I gave myself the edge... Change your side fins to a Vector's 3/2, 467. This fin has a channel formed into the fin and it helps me ride the nose with more control...by holding down the tail! I also weigh 230lbs so that's saying something! ...And I get more nose control over any large single fin without any performance sacrafice on big wave (4-10' face).

This board also needs a standard 6" to 6.5" center fin to have the "drive" you need for a hard accelerated bottom turns.

Note: I found a large center fin to be inferior to the setup mentioned above, and I thought the Turbo Fin did not work at all on this board. You might also like to know these side fins were origionally designed for short boards, but I really, really love how they work on my longboard when it comes to nose riding! I hope this helps. Aloha.

[jaffa1949]

I have a 10-0 Infinity Noserider and love it in ALL surf conditions, but when I came to noseriding here's how I gave myself the edge... Change your side fins to a Vector's 3/2, 467. This fin has a channel formed into the fin and it helps me ride the nose with more control...by holding down the tail! I also weigh 230lbs so that's saying something! ...And I get more nose control over any large single fin without any performance sacrafice on big wave (4-10' face).

This board also needs a standard 6" to 6.5" center fin to have the "drive" you need for a hard accelerated bottom turns.

Note: I found a large center fin to be inferior to the setup mentioned above, and I thought the Turbo Fin did not work at all on this board. You might also like to know these side fins were origionally designed for short boards, but I really, really love how they work on my longboard when it comes to nose riding! I hope this helps. Aloha.

I weigh about the same and my longest board is 9ft, unfortunately FCS plugs so I use Cdrive fins with the FCS as side bites and get the same result, I really love the vectors ( futures ) on my shorter board 8ft and I have the same on my traveling Bisect, I happily endorse either for side bites Have a look at the pictures in the fin primer it may help too.

It is an impressive sight when a big guy get serious nose time

[Rickyroughneck]

I have a 10-0 Infinity Noserider and love it in ALL surf conditions, but when I came to noseriding here's how I gave myself the edge... Change your side fins to a Vector's 3/2, 467. This fin has a channel formed into the fin and it helps me ride the nose with more control...by holding down the tail! I also weigh 230lbs so that's saying something! ...And I get more nose control over any large single fin without any performance sacrafice on big wave (4-10' face).

This board also needs a standard 6" to 6.5" center fin to have the "drive" you need for a hard accelerated bottom turns.

Note: I found a large center fin to be inferior to the setup mentioned above, and I thought the Turbo Fin did not work at all on this board. You might also like to know these side fins were origionally designed for short boards, but I really, really love how they work on my longboard when it comes to nose riding! I hope this helps. Aloha.

I weigh about the same and my longest board is 9ft, unfortunately FCS plugs so I use Cdrive fins with the FCS as side bites and get the same result, I really love the vectors ( futures ) on my shorter board 8ft and I have the same on my traveling Bisect, I happily endorse either for side bites Have a look at the pictures in the fin primer it may help too.

It is an impressive sight when a big guy get serious nose time

Out of curiosity, why is your longest board only 9ft?

[jaffa1949]

Dunno really the range I've got does everything I want to do.
I'm not a classic noserider although I nose ride as part of my surfing, my local is a long walling 300mtres semi to barrel fest so tip time is limited. 5, I can do regularly in the smaller stuff and 10 well maybe once a year.
I like carving big arcs and round house cutbacks and getting under the lip and speed runs to drive through a section and power the turns.

I use on every wave the trim spot and forward for adjusting speed to the section a lot of short boarders are surprised to see a long boarder get so much speed from a board especially an old fart.

I think too that have grown up surfing in Australia into the short board era we lacked the cruise lines of California at places like Rincon and Malibu and like most Aussies developed shorter arc punchier style of surfing. My theory ( excuse) anyway.

[esonscar]

A Real How To:
Get on a barrelling two to three foot face wave and surf so the nose of the board is sticking out of the exploding white water at its’ lip fall – then just walk out and hang ten (you’ll feel the board getting smacked and vibrating – this is what keeps you locked in). It is like leaning to surf – listen, learn and apply .

[esonscar]

The best advice I can give is to avoid going there at all, being on the nose is a drag !

People say that they like it but that's just social conditioning.

Jeez Roy . . . .

. . . . . by the time someone walks up to the nose of one of your boards the daylight would have gone !


(I'm still lovin' them by the way and I promise you here and now if I ever get the splash cash I'll buy one!)

[Katsura]

I have seen guys nose riding a FISH before so I always blame my own loack of skill.