Need lots of advice from experienced longboarders

[curtistaxi]

I have about $1000-1400 to buy a new dream ,all around longboard to use about 95% of the time. I will shortboard the other 5% on a 6'8" pintail thruster( If it's steep and very late drops or too low tide or big and hollow) in the more powerful Oceanside beachbreaks near my house.I don't have much interest in shortboarding because it completely saps me of enrgy by end of session) Gettin old, Man. I have surfed for 32 years now. Shortboarded for about 2/3 of those years.I have a dream longboard I have owned and ridden since age 12.It is a 1962? Harbour Banana model 9'6". The Harbour is only 2 6/8" thick and 21.5" wide .I have surfed this board in 1'-6' faces for the last 29years along with shortboarding. It has been repaired numerous times and even reglassed extra heavy 2 years ago(46 lbs. weight of board). It can no longer stand up to surfing and repeatedly gets cracks along various points along bottom that take in water.I have loved this board. It is possible to do frontside and a few backside off the lips on this board if you grab rail and put some muscle into it. Now I want to do even more shortboard like maneuvers and try to learn to noseride. Don't ask me why I never tried except for a cheater 5 on occasion. I think the Harbor looked too narrow at the nose for my weight so I never tried. I am 41 years old ,weigh 205 lbs., 5'8" ex bodybuilder.Very stocky physique.I can duckdive even fairly large waves on the heavy harbour. I have tried a buddie's hand shaped epoxy 9' swallowtail Wave Weapons 3" thick but don't like it. I want to be able to surf mushy to good beachbreaks mostly and the very occassional rockbreak/pointbreak. My paddling ability is good although I only typically surf once a week in winter and only twice a week if it's good in summer.I work 85 hours in 5 days M-F. I sit on my ass in a taxicab most of the week. I lift weights and some cardio during my workweek. On the Harbour on a good 2-5 foot summer day I can catch up to 60-70 waves in 2-3 hours. I only tell you this so that you can gauge my ability to help me match up to a good board. On the Harbour one of the things I most liked was the natural way the board would tend to backdoor the wave when dropping in. I've got many small cover ups just by chance because of this trait of that board. I want to be able to do that and a good bit of everything else(noseride easily,off the lips ,roundhouse cutbacks,grab rail reentries and a board that accelerates well and drives down the line well to make sections. I am 90% convinced to go pu glass and only 10% eps. I am thinking Walden Magic model either 9'2 or even better 9'6". Another one I am considering is the 9' Stewart Colin Mcphilipps CMPro . I worry a bit about the length at 9' for my future noseriding though (my weight). Also thinking Mctavish 9'6" Fireball. Please help me - what designs have you guys had good luck with off the rack? Bombard me senseless with raw info- as much as possible please. I never would have bought another long board but the harbour has seen it's last days. I may as well be able to do some shortboard maneuvers if I'm gonna spring that much cash. The only reason I don't know much about the various designs is that for the last 29 years I only had eyes for this Harbour so I have virtually ignored all other designs. Fire away please.I will be monitoring this forum/post 3-4x a day for the next 2-3 weeks so your answers will not be in vain

[jaffa1949]

Wow for a good question, is Harbour near you I'd go in with the old board your needs and questions and since a 62 type model would be a single fin talk to them about your short board experiences too they would be the bes bet IMO to tailor a board to suit you.
The Walden might be OK and in Australia the Global surf industries guys have some try before you buy boards, could be a way to go.

I'm 60 and 224lbs, I ride various 9 fters with no problems including the nose and progressive moves. Don't do airs except by accident.

If I go shorter for more punchy breaks I have an eight foot G& S magic fish.
Really I'd go the Harbour way, it just seems to fit right.
PS don't do the old man thing at 41 the word is experienced

[curtistaxi]

I am looking at a Jim Phillips 9"9" , 3 " thick -single "D" fin . It weighs about 25-30 Lbs. It costs $1650 and will have some of the glide that I'm used to on the Harbour. I'm gonna demo the Walden Magic Model and the Stewart in the next few days before I decide. These are a night and day difference from the Phillips.I really need your guys help deciding. I'm a bit torn between the two. How much glide will I lose if I go modern, high performance style board? Is it worth it to lose the glide to get the maneuverability?

[curtistaxi]

Rode the Walden MM 9'2" today. Liked it. Got a good vertical frontside grabrail off the lip.2-4 foot surf-offshore (Tamarack). Got a nice backside off the lip. Surfs very much like a shortboard but I can paddle into waves like age 18 again! Much more fun overall than the Harbour. Harbour is really unmatchable in wave catching ability especially when small.But very difficult to do off the lips or cutbacks.The Walden was harder to paddle out but swiveled around faster to catch a sudden wave.Gonna try the Stewart hydro hull probably(conditions permitting) on Sunday.May drive up to San Clemente to try an actual Colin Mcphilips cmpro at the Stewart shop instead.I may be too heavy to noseride either model,I tried several times today with some favorable results. I'm sure I will be able to do it soon-Just need to learn the nuances. I don't have any doubt I will succeed at noseriding. The Walden got good bursts of speed when pumping a bit through mushy sections. I definitely liked it. I'm now 100% sure I want to go the high performance route rather than the 60's style longboard route. Nothing against the other type of board or style though. I love both. I would still relish some advice-Thanks

[jaffa1949]

You covered it in one word, or two more fun than the Harbour.
fun is about be able to do more things surfing, sure the Walden is a little harder to paddle, but it will increase you cadre in the long run, more fun means you are more likely to surf more often.
Try various fin set ups for the nose riding ie deep centre fin and optional side bites.
You're taking a journey that was done in the late sixties as per the harbor a whole new longboard world awaits you.

[Felice]

Hi there,

still interested in advice? I have a McTavish Fireball Pintail and it is the perfect board especially in Beachbreaks. Might be a slight problem to get it to the US. The board is a dream, fast, easy to paddle turn AND noseride. I do get roughly 4 weeks water time per year and got on the nose in an average beachbreak in Costa Rica last year although I am too heavy for the shape. It turns on a dime, virtually never chatches rail due to bevelled rails?!?(There's a vid on youtube explaining that better than I can). I caught waves up to solid three-and-a half meter in a maxed out french beachbreak closing out completely. I didn't go to either side but just dropped straight towards the sandbar and from what I was experienced by earlier longboards experienced the nose to dive. In fact, it was already under water. But it came out and I made the drop and then completely surprised that I was still over water, fell off the board. And the glassing is second to none. I fell on the rocks in Noosa National parks and the board stopped me in two points and afterwards there were minor spider cracks in the inner glass laying. I still don't have serious dents on the surface while my Semente longboard has been surfed less and is covered with dents from knees and elbows.
It is a different production than the Global Surf Industries one as far as I understand, but to get an idea of the shape you might be able to get a Tuflite one to test. But to buy one, I would always contact the guys at their Head office in Byron Bay, AUS and order my next customized. It's magic.
Actually, if you go off the lip, there are more radical shapes in the McT line such as the Razor or the F4.
Ok, enough advertisement, don't you have Takayama models to test somewhere there. An in the pink is said to be a good alround board too, but it looks a bit more retro with its square tail, but the hawaiianprodesigns should be considered as well.

Best regards,

Felice

[curtistaxi]

Thanks to both of you for the replies. They have the Mctavish F4 regular glass and the Mctavish Fireball epoxy. I definately want regular glass. I'm worried that the Mctavish won't noseride due to it's narrow nose with my weight. But the f4 really is tempting to me because of the pintail and the 3,4 or 5 fin setup options.I may see if a Demo is available elsewhere within 100 miles of where I live.

[Felice]

That's interesting,

your description of your off the rails sound to me progressive to a degree that I will probably never reach. I always thought coming from a shortboard and surfing as such, the epoxies were made for this style of longboarding. Why do you stick to normal glass? I do because of the better glide, the possibilities of extra custom measures and the better sound of the board on or better in the water. And I am so overweight that 3 more kg in the board won't count either. But why do you go for it?
The McTavish Fireball will certainly noseride, except you weigh more than me (250 lbs/9'6 Fireball). I got on he nose at that beach break in Costa Rica with the same feeling of security that I experienced in my 10' Bing SilverSpoon in Doheny, well that was more stable but in faster breaking waves, I don't get this monster fast enough around to get into the right position.
If you want glas you should consider ordering from the factory directly that glas job is really second to none in durability and strenght and you can have your own colours (if you want).

Best regards,

Felice

[curtistaxi]

Thanks. When I rode my friend's handshaped epoxy 9' longboard 2+1 three inch thick swallowtail it had a very uneasy feeling when trying to do off the lips but it drove well down the line and made sections well. But the poly Walden was 10 times better when doing off the lips.The epoxy board would stick on the top of the lip like a magnet and stop there and my body would continue then fall. The Walden would punch through the lip exactly where I wanted it just like my shortboard then continue on to the next maneuver. The epoxy simply didn't feel like an extension of my body and the poly did.The exoxy was at least 3-4 times easier to paddle out but I would gladly give that up for the shortboard like performance. The Walden felt like my shortboard to me but about 4x easier to catch waves on. I'm excited about the manuevers I'll be able to do like when I was young. On one wave going backside I came off the bottom and shot my legs and hips upward at about a 45 degree angle with the Walden and it came up beautifully -just like a shortboard and snapped off the top then perfectly arced at a very tight angle back down. I'll be able to eyeball the lip and do different types of off the lips and reentries with this board ! One question to you Felice though- if I weigh 205 and am short only 5'8" do you thing in mushy to good hollow beachbreaks 2-6 foot faces the 9'2" Walden,Mctavish or Stewart ( all three boards are nearly identical with differences in tail and bottom configurations) will be able to noseride if I trim correctly? I have always tended to like thin sensitive boards and the Walden was perfectly sensitive. One time in Mexico I rode a 3-3.5" thick Bing and definitely did not like it - The reason was the thickness. Any time I have tried a thick board I have disliked it. I would rather struggle to paddle more to get the increased sensitivity on the wave.I remeasured the Harbour a 4th time the proper way with two rulers on each side then measured the gap between and came up with 2 6/8". If I can find a noseridable performance longboard I know I will be happy. Tomorrow just to eliminate any remaining doubt I will Demo a Stewart 5 fin LSW E type glass ( epoxy hand shaped). It is supposed to perform like Poly but I don't believe it. I am very skeptical. It doesn't seem any lighter than the Walden but it does have some interesting angles around the rails. Stewart's website claims it is the best but I am going to be looking for performance flaws tomorrow. I'll post up after the surf. If it lives up to the claim I'll be honest.

[Felice]

Wow, that's a good question. Since I really only know the McT Fireball I can really only speak for that, but I would think that your ability surfing should enable you to get into places of even very hollow beach breaks where you trim right to noseride. The better you're surfing the more boards you can noseride. Look at guys like Joel Tudor noseriding a under 7 Foot single fin. Or Christian Wach in that Picaresque movie, noseriding some mini selfshaped board with some kind of a finger fin or a very performance oriented carbon Aviso longboard with no proper middle fin.
As far as I understand all these performance longboards will in theory noseride different to the classic log, since the bouyancy derives from the concave under the nose and not the water-enclosed tail like in old noseriders, so the angle to the wave is a bit different, a bit more "towards the beach", and the position a little further away from the curl, but in my short experiences on the nose I didn't really feel that difference. So me at 250 lbs on a 9'6/23 1/8/3 1/8 McT Fireball it felt natural to get on the nose in a not-to-hollow but good-sized beachbreak (rather six feet), you being 205 lbs should maybe struggle a bit more on a thin 9'2 but should be able to compensate for that with more surfing ability and get good noserides on that. In the 2 foot wave there should be better boards for long noserides since that should be rather the realm of specialized noseride logs and in very hollow and fast waves noserides are nothing I have thought of so far.
As far as I have seen the Walden Magic Model it should be the same bread-and-butter model (allround longboard) that the Fireball is for McT. I think the nose is wider in the walden at similar length so that should do the same. If you go more performance-oriented with an F4 or McT Razor they should be more difficult to noseride, but the widely known and appreciated allround longboard models of any of the big companies should get you good noserides.
I would be interested in your comparison between the Walden MM and the Fireball and did you test any HawaiianProDesigns from Takayama?

Best regards,

Felice

[curtistaxi]

I wanted to test a dt2 but couldn't find one in my area. The salesman at the surf shop said that the Walden had quite a bit more rocker nose and tail so this appealed to me. He said that the dt2 was a more well rounded board with less rocker. I didn't like the 9' Stewart 5 fin LSW handshaped epoxy nearly as much as the Walden MM (9'2"). The LSW stuck on the lip during off the lips and was much more difficult to pull maneuver off( probably due to epoxy). I decided to stop testing boards and go on a gut feeling. I ordered a custom 9'6", 2 and 7/8" thick, custom airbrush, sanded finish Walden Magic Model today. It will take quite a while to get it (4-7 weeks is what I'm told).It will be made in Ventura, California.I'm chancing it on the length and thinness. I talked to Steve Walden this morning about the length and he recommended it for easier paddling and noserides. I like thinner boards so I'm not very worried about being under 3" thickness and the Walden MM 9'2" I rode was about right at 2 and 3/4" thick. I think by moving up by an eighth of an inch in thickness (to 2 and 7/8") I will get into more waves and earlier with minimal loss of sensitivity. Going poly

[jaffa1949]

I wanted to test a dt2 but couldn't find one in my area. The salesman at the surf shop said that the Walden had quite a bit more rocker nose and tail so this appealed to me. He said that the dt2 was a more well rounded board with less rocker. I didn't like the 9' Stewart 5 fin LSW handshaped epoxy nearly as much as the Walden MM (9'2"). The LSW stuck on the lip during off the lips and was much more difficult to pull maneuver off( probably due to epoxy). I decided to stop testing boards and go on a gut feeling. I ordered a custom 9'6", 2 and 7/8" thick, custom airbrush, sanded finish Walden Magic Model today. It will take quite a while to get it (4-7 weeks is what I'm told).It will be made in Ventura, California.I'm chancing it on the length and thinness. I talked to Steve Walden this morning about the length and he recommended it for easier paddling and noserides. I like thinner boards so I'm not very worried about being under 3" thickness and the Walden MM 9'2" I rode was about right at 2 and 3/4" thick. I think by moving up by an eighth of an inch in thickness (to 2 and 7/8") I will get into more waves and earlier with minimal loss of sensitivity. Going poly

That's a pretty good call , when you have more rocker allows more shortboard like turning but for noseriding lifts the tail more and subsequently fins need to be longer to hold the tail or the tail needs to be heavier with different rails .

IMO you went the right way, ride as many different models as you can, let the board choose itself for you.

There are lots of would be riders on this forum who ignore that basic advice then struggle at surfing.

I imagine you'll do nothing but enjoy the anticipation and then reward and you have a shaping relationship.

[curtistaxi]

Thanks Jaffa ! I feel good about my decision. I think the rear fin will be 7" . I went with Futura sidebites. If the 7' fin doesn't cut it for noseriding I could move up maybe an inch but I don't want to compromise rail to rail turnability though. I think I can learn how to do it though . Other guys can.

[curtistaxi]

Felice - You had asked me a previous question I haven't quite answered. The epoxy I definitely don't like because it feels clumsy when I hit the lip on it. It seems to stick like a magnet. The poly just about brought itself down with me as I did the maneuver.The poly did it so naturally it felt completely like an extension of my body. The epoxy does have one major advantage I could undeniably feel. It paddled out about twice as easy as the poly. If I could ride epoxy I would because I would get home much less tired after a three hour surf. I did catch an overhead wave at La Jolla Shores on the epoxy 3" thick 9' swallowtail longboard in almost smooth conditions and it really screamed down the line. To be very precise , I only dislike the epoxy when hitting the lip or any other rail engaging sharp hard turns I tried. Poly was at least 3-4 times better feeling to me.When I rode the hand shaped epoxy Stewart S winger 9' longboard (lsw model) it made a clattering or chattering sound as I paddled it in a light wind. It was because of lessened flex.This must be what screws up the ride . I could hear the sound when paddling very loudly. If someone were to have paddled next to me they could have heard it too. I will test whatever new technologies as they come along with a completely open mind but probably will use poly as the benchmark. I've read the internet opinions on this for about 60 hours now and I am seeing about a 85 % preference to poly overall. I really did give it an unbiased try because the first 5 or 6 times I rode the epoxy longboard I had not even invested 2 minutes researching the pros and cons. I was like an unbiased jury at that point. I'm glad it turned out that way because I am even more sure about my decision to stay poly for now as I was completely free of influence from others when I rode the epoxy. I was so naive to the technology I thought it was an improvement to surfboard technology simply because it was new and others seemed to be riding it. But even when deeply combing the internet it seems that the very picky and discerning like myself only like poly if you look at the majority who have many years surfing.I wish poly boards were stronger and more ding resistant. This seems to be a major reason why people buy these epoxy boards. It definitely won't sell me though- I'd much rather have a better feeling on the board as it surfs. I'll simply buy a $1000 longboard every 3 years as they wear out. I only surf one or two days a week so the poly board should easily last that long. That's only $333 per year. If I go epoxy for durability how much am I really saving? $ 200 a year? I don't care about that. I waste more money per year on eating cancerous, preservative laden fast food because of the taxi job. If I ran home to eat a $1.50 meal instead of a $8 fast food meal I could lose a $45 cab fare easy- just for deadheading back home to save my health and $ 6.50. So the amortized durability savings of epoxy for me is far less important than the fun factor during the ride on the wave itself. No offense to any epoxy riders though. I'm only a (hack )cab driver with a now very solidified opinion. Surfing is a cheap sport anyway. $1500 sets you up with a new top of the line wetsuit and board. Skiing ? = $2000-$3000 plus lift tickets. ( Although surfing is much more conditions dependent than skiing). Sailing ? = $ 2000 for a sailing dingy or $250,000 for a 50' Beneteau plus craploads of time and money on maintenance. We got it real good my friends. The only real bad thing about surfing is that you simply waste quite a few drives and a lot of time only to bunk out when you get to the beach. Also sharks! I've gotten chased out of the water by a killer shark in Mexico when I was 13. Passed at two meters away then headed back for me. I got a whitewash in quick. See? Pros and Cons. Just like very single minute detail of this life. Maybe I didn't give enough of a chance to epoxy boards . Maybe I should have tried more than three models. The third was a Robert August popout longboard about 2 years ago in good, slightly overhead ,slightly windy beachbreak surf.. Too thick and horrible turning qualities. I thought it was the thickness though at the time. I think now that I have researched this topic more it was more the epoxy. That board also stayed too high in the water when riding and wouldn't punch through the lip on off the lips. I'm about to really give a vivid analogy so please brace yourselves and I hope not to offend. When I was in the Navy we pulled into Hawaii and I went to get a working girl (callgirl) off the street. I was paranoid about V.D. so I wore two prophylactics(rubbers). All feeling was voided out of the experience because of the two rather than one.I had to peel one off and discard it. That is precisely how all 3 epoxy boards felt to me when I rode them compared to a Poly. The poly was like barebacking it. That's how big the difference is to me. I hope I haven't crossed the line with this analogy but at least I'm being 100% honest. Night and day difference in sensitivity. If they eventually come up with a board that feels the same as poly with better strength and weight characteristics for comparable money I'll make the switch.

[jaffa1949]

No more confessions just get the poly and enjoy the feeling. ( joking) .
It's a bit like the vinyl LPs versus tapes versus CDs sound appreciation death squads each opinionated, but you hear what you hear and like what you like. Anyway you've ordered your board get and wack those lips, summer's coming here in Australia surfing frenzy meets feeding frenzy sharks versus crowds and we have had flood to shape the rivermouth banks yeee ha

My little rivermouth

[curtistaxi]

That's a nice spot- Enjoy and Thank You.

[what I ride]

Hey reading your post, there are tons of great longboards in everyones eyes. For me, I have gone through a few, I have finally found what I was looking for. Robert august (what I ride) 9'6 epoxy.......In my eyes the most well rounded longboard for me. I am 6'2 ....250lbs just a big guy, it paddles great, handles like a dream, nose riding is perfect....... Alot of my friends ride the waldens, they are great boards...But its all about what fits you.

Good luck on the hunt for your next great board...Note: keep in mind the epoxy's might be a little more money but they will last 4 ever...(no ding repair or sun damage).

[curtistaxi]

Thanks for the post !

[jaffa1949]

I thought about your navy days and your shore leave experience. Don't wear two wetsuits

[curtistaxi]

New board is working out great Jaffa ! Not too heavy. A little of the glide like my old Harbour. Off the lips good with non- stock center fin. (Maybe 7.75 inches ?) Gonna keep the board . Extremely pleased with this board. Thanks for all your advice through this process. Incidentally, I did wear a 2mm vest under my 15 year old worn out 3mm fullsuit today. Water temp 56 degrees today. Works like a charm !