Where am I going wrong!?

[sambotc]

I'm getting really frustrated as I don't seem to be progressing. I'm 6' 2 1/2" fairly slim, my board is a 6'10" short board (21" x 2 3/4")

I'm starting to wonder now if my board is to small for my skill level, although I can catch waves when things get bigger 3-4ft + I just fail big time.

I seem to wear myself out trying to catch waves that go past underneath me, or pull out when i'm right on the very top of the wave looking like i'm going to go over the falls. Either that or I do catch, but then I can't make it down the near vertical face of the wave, even when going at a bit of an angle, I almost drop of the top and land at the bottom!

The reason I am starting to blame the board is because if i'm right both the problems above can be caused by not having enough speed into the wave is this right? I feel like i'm not able to gain much speed in the time i've got, or if I do I have paddled to far and the wave is to far gone so to speak, so when I look back and it looks like its going to drop on my head, I pull out and let it pass.

Does this sound reasonable, I don't want to blame the board if it is technique, but the lads I see on longer boards seem to be able to cruise onto a much greener wave and catch it earlier and be up and going long before I can catch waves, so I am further forward at the more critical point?? It's really knocking my confidence, not so much the wipe out although pearling isn't my idea of fun, but just that I look like a spoon when other people are about!!

Would really appreciate some help as i'm starting to lose enthusiasum in anything but knee high stuff which isn't much fun on my board as it just feels dead at slow speed.

Thanks, Sam

[jaffa1949]

HI sambotc, is this the dreaded big boy board that you had all the repair issues with that we did multiple posts about?

If it is that board was a load of junk then and would be even worse now, no matter how well you fixed it it would have taken on water and become heavier.

You also mentioned in this post that guys on longer boards are paddling more easily onto waves sorry but that is the obvious truth a beginner has to face if he has a board that is unsuitable.

Go longer young man and get a new board if it is that old piece of junk, if you want to surf then you owe it to yourself to give yourself a chance with a decent beginner's board. Talk to us about the boards you might choose, as there will be some chance of good advice!

[sambotc]

hi Jaffa,

Yeah that's the one!

I guess it's obvious to an experienced surfer, but to me I didn't take that into account, I was thinking that it would be more about mastering the issues with balance etc

I think fitness has a lot to do with it as well. Are you less likely to pearl on a bigger board like a mini mal? I thought the nose might dig in easier because of the nose rocker, but looking at others in the water they seem to catch it earlier so the face of the wave isn't as steep, is this correct?

Before I look at other boards (which will probably be second hand boards i can learn on) I would like to understand where I am going wrong, so am I right in saying bigger board will pick up earlier, pick up speed quicker and not make me pearl because of nose rocker?

Actually having now surfed for a bit I think a mal might be more my kind of style, not sure if i'm one for jumping around on a short board, quite fancy a more mellow ride at least for a bit!

Thanks, Sam

[jaffa1949]

Hi again Sambotc, my sympathy, it is very hard to get technique correct with the beasty you have.

A good secondhand longboard about 9ft would ideal. Avoid any that have a huge nose rocker or tail rocker as they are longboards trying to be short boards and for you they represent the worst of both worlds.

I would also recommend avoiding any pop out cheapo Chinese boards, you already know the quality of those.
No soft boards either.

About pearling, it's about paddle position on the board and the angle of take off attack you choose if you are trying frantically to paddle on a dunga then you aren't able to choose the line of take as well.

To help I' mgoing to suggest you tour your local surf shops and take a few happy snaps of boards you might consider, post them and we can help you choose.

Failing finding standard longboards, you could look at GSI, Surftech ( genuine) longboards and because they have some quality in their epoxies you could go a little shorter but up in the volume.


A lot of things to think about, I imagine that some of the other old hands have some thoughts too, just hold fire for a little while and see what else is offered.

[sambotc]

I'm hoping I can find a happy medium if i'm honest Jaffa, I have learn't to use the short board, but certainly not to it's potential (the board size rather than this particular piece of junk)

When I mentioned pearling in the previous post, what I mean't to say was the nose dropping down the wave and the back of the board feels like it's being pushed up almost vertical and I almost get launched off because of the angle the board is at, rather than the wave pushing the board forward (gaining speed)This is why I think it is a problem with my entry speed. When I have caught waves properly, the feeling is a lot different, so now I tend to know if it's a goer or not and if it feels like it's going to end in tears I back off and let the wave go by. 8 out of 10 times i'm backing off now though which is feeling like a waste of time going out in anything 3ft+

I was hoping to find something like a 7'6" mini mal cheapish and carry on with something like that? The reason I don't want to go much bigger is because when i'm in the water quite often I find the board a burden especially when getting out the back! I can duck dive the short board OK and can't help thinking that trying to get an 8 -9' board out is going to be hard work!

Also I don't want to make things to easy if that makes sense as I feel I may get lazy and lose the experience I have already gained from the short board, but at the same time give myself a bit more of a fighting chance when it comes to catching. When I do catch on the short board I am fine and can ride the wave fine, it's just the popping up stage. Like I say my pop up technique itself is fine on it's just entry speed and positioning that I feel like i'm lacking skill/confidence in.
I know what your probably thinking, i'm complaining of not being able to ride the board that I bought because its to advanced for me, but not taking advise on using a bigger board! It's just the thought of getting the longer board out the back that puts me off (i've tried to turtle roll and I always seem to get water blasted up my nose and stuff!)

Do you think a mini mal would be much more forgiving and help me get my speed up easier?

[jaffa1949]

Certainly have a look at the Global Surf industries 7S boards , they come in both regular and epoxy.
The original shaper used to do all my boards when I lived nearby so I know the shape is good, probably a 7'3" Super fish XL that line would have the volume and paddling power and better performance . They have a higher volume witha raised deck but maintain rail shapes that work.
They are not a skater fish but have a lot of capability you can evolve into.
They also have a number of fin options to play with too.
I also know they come up secondhand around the place so they might be an option.

I looked at the surf tech site they have Surftech Soul fish that offers similar benefits.

Set the specifications in your mind and look for something similar where ever you look.

Where do you surf? Someone might point you to a good surf shop!

[sambotc]

I was looking at something like this today

http://www.trioceansurf.co.uk/surfboard ... tripegloss

Traditional build, so hopefully no more surprising, 7' 6" and fuller shape, what do you think?

Went back in again today and it was a lot smaller, was good because although I probably only got 3-4 rides it let me try a few different techniques out, I think I have figured out that I am maybe a little to far back on the board as because it was a lot calmer I could sense my speed better when paddling? Maybe this is causing me to not build up enough speed on the bigger stuff and also causing me to fly off when I go forward and pop up (a bit like a see saw?)

I think though I would still like a mal as it will be a bit more of a chilled out ride which for a minute would suit me better, and can always go back to the other board once I am more confident in bigger stuff 4ft sort of size?

I'm down in Devon UK

[jaffa1949]

This comes down to one thing you only learn from experience by having the experience, if you are too far back on the board you are playing snow plough trying to push the board through the water the nose should ideally be no more than 1" to 2" above th water and the boards should glide smoothly practice on flat water until you find your board's sweet spot.

Look I would go 9ft just to give you that easy paddle learning and don't worry about pearling it is going to happen and all surfers at some time even at the high skill levels still pearl.
Don't be worried about wipeouts pearling looking awkward and other things , as you become more skilled their occurrences become less.

I can't help you much more, as in this one post you are havering between a 7'6" and a mal, since you don't have the money for both go the mal!

Longboards can be ridden in any surf the rider needs the skill though.
Once you get your skills up you should have the money to start on something new.

[sambotc]

Is the 7' 6" not a mal Jaffa?
I just don't want to buy a board because it's easier than getting the technique right, and if I can figure out where i'm going wrong then I will work on technique. I wasn't waaaay back on my board, the nose was up probably 2" but if I move forward about 2" the nose drops so that really it's the rocker shape coming out of the water so the board is flatter to skim along the surface, the only thing is it tends to slap a bit when paddling against the chop, does this sound right?
I think the mal may still be a good buy, as another thing I have noticed is I could do with turning into the wave quicker as sometimes I out run it and slow down but these are all things I can practice on.

The annoying thing is I think I know where I am going wrong, but as the conditions are different most days I can't always compare like for like. Again it think its just experience and I need more water time before making a decision on a new board!

[jaffa1949]

Let's talk about the term Mal, historically the boards that American lifeguards brought to Australia when they came as part of the celebrations surrounding the 1956 Melbourne Olympics at 9 and 10 ft long were considered short compared to the 16ft hollow surf skis, since the lifeguards including Greg Noll and Tommy Zahn surfed in California nd particularly Malibu, the boards became known as malibus or Mals , longboards elsewhere .

The 7'6" you are interested in is called a minimal because it is smaller but has the lines of a Mal and somebody noted it enough to develop the play on words. Short boards can be up to eight foot but it is about the purpose and plan and rail shape, the short boards now being ridden are at the extreme end of short.

History over, going that 2" forward so the board glides is right! All boards make snappy sounds when paddling through chop!

Finally all I can say is if you want the experience you need to wet yourself more often

ANYTHING in the range of what you are looking at will be better than than the submarine you are trying to surf now!

[sambotc]

Thanks for clearing that up Jaffa, every day's a school day! Should I be in the same position when paddling out as when I go to take a wave then? I feel like the answer will be yes and so there is something I need to practice at the next available time. Unfortunately the surf has gone a bit flat for the next few days at least so my quest to catch a decent size wave will have to wait until later on. I'm trying to get out 3 times a week at the moment which is pretty dedicated considering I have to juggle routine life stuff around it also.

As far as turning earlier is concerned, when trying to go back up the top half of the face again after dropping in, do you have to apply more pressure to the back foot to stop the nose digging into the wave?
I read a good article on this site (not the forum) about pumping to keep speed up, this made me realise where I am also going wrong. It mentioned going rail to rail rather than nose to tail?

Do they mean you should be surfing almost completely parrallel to the beach, and do you have any tips to stop the rail digging in? I'm probably running before I can walk asking these questions straight after questions about actually catching waves! but knowledge is power ans all that!

Cheers for the help and time Jaffa, appreciate your advise.

Sam

[themathteacher]

I just pulled up the pictures of your board. the fins it has look huge, are those G7 fins? If your chief complaint is that the you are having problems catching waves after a while on the board try switching fins. The old black ones are thicker than modern ones, and if you have the size 7's you have the biggest they make.

Try this: take out the center fin and see if this makes it easier to catch waves. If so, then buy a smaller set or a small center fin. If not, then yeah you need more practice or a bigger board. But for a quick fix try it, can't hurt...

[sambotc]

Hi themathteacher,

The fins are G5's? No idea if that's a good or bad thing, they came with the board. Went for a surf today but when I got there it was flat! MSW said 2-3ft but never mind...

How will the board feel with 2 fins rather than 3?

[themathteacher]

surfing wise? It will have a tendency to skid on the face, which is why you only try it once.

If you like the glide you put in a smaller center fin, if you notice no difference then it's not the fins.

[sambotc]

thanks for the advise, I think I will stick to the 3 fins for a minute, skidding around sounds like fun, but maybe not for me just yet!
Managed to get out for an hour today left the fins as they were. Managed to catch the best and longest ride to date on probably the one of the bigger waves I have caught. I think being further forward is helping a lot, I feel the wave take me a lot earlier and I can then pop up far quicker.

I have another problem though, I have noticed it a few times now which is, my board seems to get more unstable the longer I am in. I'm not sure whether it is fatigue causing it, or water through the repairs. I can't see any water in there when I push the glass/repair though. kind of like a side to side wobble and finding the sweet spot on the board seems to get more precise.

I'll stick with it for a while, I feel like it is starting to click now and everything is improving gradually each session. I'm definitely thinking about a new board like a minimal, but currently I can't afford to get one really so it's this one or nothing! Needless to say it won't be nothing either.

[jaffa1949]

Sambotc master this dreadful board and the next one will be a breeze, and you can pull into anything and it doesn't matter, any good surfer had a board that they practiced "taking it like a rat" on. This was the beast that first went with them into closeouts and first barrel attempts!

[Tassiedevil]

You are right Jaffa that most of us started on old beasts of boards .My 1st one was an old 7 foot single fin that took on more water then the titanic . I paid 15 bucks for it had it for years until it fell to pieces .
I find myself in the same ( similar ) situation to Sambotic as you know I am looking at jumping onto my 1 st longboard . I am tossing up between an 8 footer and a 9 foot plus McTavish board . Wondering if someone like myself (70 kg wringing wet including wetsuit , booties , hood and towel ) would notice much difference between the minimals say an 8 ball McTavish or the full Mal such as a fireball . What would be the difference in paddling /small wave performance (3-4foot) / wave catching ability .

By the way had some great surf here over Easter . Unfortunately nothing since though this weekend looks promising

[jaffa1949]

Tassiedevil, you could certainly look at the smaller McTavish board, it would probably give you a nice blend between both worlds, just look at the tail rocker, some of McTavish's designs feature a strong tail rocker to give some short board turning performance, can challenge ease of nose riding!

Glad you got a surf, Easter here was totally uncorrugated with swell. Flat zilch, nix!

[esonscar]

I have not read any of the above as I halted at the 'over the falls’ bit . . yup, over the falls is the place to be . . . keep paddling over the falls and you will catch waves. Simple . . . end of.

[Surf Hound]

Dude, get yourself a longboard and actually enjoy learning to surf. Not sure why one would refuse to get a longboard after the effort it seems you have put into surfing with little return of actually surfing. The answer is right in front of you - get a longboard and learn to surf. The reasoning that a longboard would be hard to get out back is nonsence as the extra speed you gain while paddling a longboard will surely help you get out back vs a mini mal or shorty. Rent a longboard or borrow a buddies for a day and go out on some decent waves and I guarantee you the stoke and advancement of your abilities will be 10 fold. Once you are cathing the waves you want, riding the face top to bottom then look at going short but keep your longboard as I guarantee you will still want to use it sometimes as you skill level progresses.