I think of this website as a really cool place to come and read the opinions of people from around the world. One of the things I've always valued about it is that people here seem to be genuinely nice people who don't got out of their way to mess with people on this site. You can say something here and most of the time people don't jump on you just for the sake of piling on. I think this site is special in that way and I value it for that reason.
Okay, there is a reason I'm posting this poll. I am an American and proud to be one just as I would hope you are proud to be whatever you are. Every so often, not alot, I see posts on here about Americans that seem less than kind or thoughtful. Yes, we can take a joke, but I don't see anyone on here taking the piss out of any other group on here so it feels a little one sided. It makes me feel like we're part of the group, but not really and never really will be either. Can that be right?
I would like to propose that this be a place where we think hard before posting things that might be viewed as attacking or mocking another country's value system, or whatever. I believe that everyone here should be made to feel welcome and supported no matter where they come from. If it's your country and you want to take a swing, okay, but if it's somebody else's and you know what you are writing could be offensive then take a step back and let the urge to post it pass is all I'm proposing. You know you'll feel better if you walk away from that urge to post than you will getting into a big ol' beef with somebody and they'll feel better too and frankly the world needs more good feelings!
Just wanted to get a general consensus to see if anyone else felt the spirit of Love too! Let's make this a Zone of Acceptance today!
Signed,
Polly Frick'n Anna to some
Would you support a "Zone of Acceptance" here?
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by Luke » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:22 pm
I can understand what your saying, i too love this site for being so friendly.
But i do like a good debate, I've had many, many heated disscusions with friends and family and people online about all sorts of things.
However, if someone finds something i post upsetting, i'd remove it out of courtecy. (such as happened yesterday). Doesn't change how I feel...but keeps the site friendly.
I do think a separate 'soap box' forum for heavier topics would be a good idea.
But i do like a good debate, I've had many, many heated disscusions with friends and family and people online about all sorts of things.
However, if someone finds something i post upsetting, i'd remove it out of courtecy. (such as happened yesterday). Doesn't change how I feel...but keeps the site friendly.
I do think a separate 'soap box' forum for heavier topics would be a good idea.
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:35 pm
Luke252 wrote:However, if someone finds something i post upsetting, i'd remove it out of courtecy. (such as happened yesterday). Doesn't change how I feel...but keeps the site friendly.
I do think a separate 'soap box' forum for heavier topics would be a good idea.
I like a good debate too really but I think when it is based on someone's nationality it gets personal rather quickly. Yesterday kinda was harsh for me to see. And, being an American, I personally felt attacked too even though I didn't even have a dog in that fight so to speak. And for what reason other than to give a few folks the pleasure of a good debate? I just think there are some things that we don't need to say or write. Restraint is the better part of valor, etc. Usually, I'm not the type to ever say anything and there are probably others who wouldn't say anything either and just go away with bruised feelings. That's why I'm proposing that we just kinda knock it off in that area since we all come from different places. Having a safe place to play on the internet is kinda rare these days!
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by libby » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:41 pm
Hmmmm I think the debates that get heated around here are pretty much always resolved peacefully, and THATS what makes the forum amazing. People can have a rant and get other peoples backs up and say at the end either 'thanks you have changed my opinion on that' or 'sorry we are going to have to disagree'.
I definatley agree that if you are posting on a sensitive subject then you should think hard about whether its appropriate and how to word it in the most tactful way.
I dont think there should be any changes to the forum, it works so why change it, theres nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate, generally it broadens everybodys mind, which is what this whole internet malarky is about for me.
I definatley agree that if you are posting on a sensitive subject then you should think hard about whether its appropriate and how to word it in the most tactful way.
I dont think there should be any changes to the forum, it works so why change it, theres nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate, generally it broadens everybodys mind, which is what this whole internet malarky is about for me.
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:00 pm
I think it is working for you but not for me, as an American, as I was pretty offended yesterday. People died here and that was really sad. A little support would have been far nicer.
I agree that there shouldn't be a rule against anything here. I just wish there was a gentleman's agreement not to start posts out with "Americans (or, fill in the blank with other country, however that rarely happens here) are Weird, Stupid, etc.". It may not feel wrong to you but it does to me. And somebody apologizing afterwards doesn't feel very genuine after they've had their go at someone. It just seems to put distance there that doesn't need to be there. Maybe my saying something will put distance there too but I just couldn't imagine taking on a position against any of your countries in a negative light just for a spirited discussion particularly on a day of sadness such as yesterday.
I've edited this to say also that I know you are sensitive to other people's feelings as I saw that yesterday too and appreciated your attempt to calm the discussion. Your comments about it not being the right time really hit home for me. But I'd ask respectfully that people also consider not only timing but tone. There can really never be a good time to ask if an entire nation is weird and not catch some of it's residents a little off guard.
We are currently undergoing in our country a national debate about what is and is not appropriate to say about another group (Google Don Imus and the Rutgers players). It is not easy to decide if something is restraint or censorship sometimes. With this post, I'm not asking for censoring, just trying to appeal for fair play here.
I agree that there shouldn't be a rule against anything here. I just wish there was a gentleman's agreement not to start posts out with "Americans (or, fill in the blank with other country, however that rarely happens here) are Weird, Stupid, etc.". It may not feel wrong to you but it does to me. And somebody apologizing afterwards doesn't feel very genuine after they've had their go at someone. It just seems to put distance there that doesn't need to be there. Maybe my saying something will put distance there too but I just couldn't imagine taking on a position against any of your countries in a negative light just for a spirited discussion particularly on a day of sadness such as yesterday.
I've edited this to say also that I know you are sensitive to other people's feelings as I saw that yesterday too and appreciated your attempt to calm the discussion. Your comments about it not being the right time really hit home for me. But I'd ask respectfully that people also consider not only timing but tone. There can really never be a good time to ask if an entire nation is weird and not catch some of it's residents a little off guard.
We are currently undergoing in our country a national debate about what is and is not appropriate to say about another group (Google Don Imus and the Rutgers players). It is not easy to decide if something is restraint or censorship sometimes. With this post, I'm not asking for censoring, just trying to appeal for fair play here.
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by Luke » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:11 pm
Ginat, I do understand...but I think the BIGGIE topics of religion, politics, guns etc, can still be discussed without everyone falling out.
The USA is a bit of an easy target for these issues at the moment, due to the current government, and the difference between the american government and american people isn't always made clear.
The USA is a bit of an easy target for these issues at the moment, due to the current government, and the difference between the american government and american people isn't always made clear.
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by CheeZee » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:16 pm
well not to sound like one of those " i never do that sort of thing " kidz .. but im pretty damn sure i have never blindly insulted anyones country or creed or religion ..i will diplomatically and constructively put forward my opinions but only to do with the subject matter , never the place of origin (allbeit with bad spelling and grammar!) and as far as im aware other than the odd heat of the moment pop at someone or their country , everyone else is pretty good mannered when it comes to flammable subjects! .
I hear what your saying and can see how anyone in the US could feel slightly piled on when it comes to certain matters but i think that really needs to be dealt with at source/home more than what some dude or dudette thinks or feels elsewhere.
I think a lot of where this comes from is the fact that in Europe (especially) we are far more open to smiling revolutions when it comes to politics and laws and the media will always show the public stance on such matters whereas a lot of the time all we get to see from the US mainstream media is the general public taking crap and not putting up for themselves.
This, i believe, is where a miss-guided rant at the US and its population can occur .. " we simply cannot understand how you all will put up with this etc etc " .. but as i say , i think that is more to do with the US mainstream media constantly showing the rest of the world that in general you are sheep that are able to be herded into whatever pen the suits want to put you in. It is obviously not the case but only US citizens can change how you are portrayed ..and no one else.
..with peace love and respect ... the CheeZer
I hear what your saying and can see how anyone in the US could feel slightly piled on when it comes to certain matters but i think that really needs to be dealt with at source/home more than what some dude or dudette thinks or feels elsewhere.
I think a lot of where this comes from is the fact that in Europe (especially) we are far more open to smiling revolutions when it comes to politics and laws and the media will always show the public stance on such matters whereas a lot of the time all we get to see from the US mainstream media is the general public taking crap and not putting up for themselves.
This, i believe, is where a miss-guided rant at the US and its population can occur .. " we simply cannot understand how you all will put up with this etc etc " .. but as i say , i think that is more to do with the US mainstream media constantly showing the rest of the world that in general you are sheep that are able to be herded into whatever pen the suits want to put you in. It is obviously not the case but only US citizens can change how you are portrayed ..and no one else.
..with peace love and respect ... the CheeZer -
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:27 pm
Luke252 wrote:The USA is a bit of an easy target for these issues at the moment, due to the current government, and the difference between the american government and american people isn't always made clear.
That's a loaded topic-- am I, as an American, responsible for my government-- one that I will not take on because it is such a circular debate at times. But after spending time in Europe and having been asked to defend/take responsibility for my government, or, denounce it altogether, I am particularly sensitive to this debate and would never ask another person to do the same. It isn't fair. And, while I'm sure you might find multiple reasons why it is, I ask you to focus more specifically about what I'm saying here.
My point is much more about being sensitive to other people and trying to create an inclusive environment. We don't have to all agree, nor should we, but there ought to be some things that we agree we just won't ask of each other like trying to disprove a negative statement about their country. It is like arguing with a significant other. You know there are buttons that are just too hot to push. Why do it?
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:50 pm
Okay Cheezee, before my head pops off my body, I'll try to answer your quote:
"I hear what your saying and can see how anyone in the US could feel slightly piled on when it comes to certain matters but i think that really needs to be dealt with at source/home more than what some dude or dudette thinks or feels elsewhere."
Have you ever seen the movie Do The Right Thing? It is an older movie, from maybe the 80s, that deals with racism in the inner city but it could be seen as a metaphor for the country (USA or the world maybe). There is a scene in it where a representative of every racial group from the neighborhood in the movie stands and delivers their rant about another race. Everybody has something bad to say about people in another group. I remember seeing that movie for the first time and laughing at the irony (it is kind of a funny scene in a weird way) as I realized that each group of people has something bad to say about another group. Human nature?
As a country we KNOW we have problems with all sorts of things here and we know you do too in your country. And, we know that much of the world has a problem with this policy or that.
The point is simply that we don't need people who act like they like us on one hand to say they think we are looney on the other. Kinda sucks, you know? And it makes us feel like the "other" group and I just didn't think that was cool and wish people would agree not to do that.
"I hear what your saying and can see how anyone in the US could feel slightly piled on when it comes to certain matters but i think that really needs to be dealt with at source/home more than what some dude or dudette thinks or feels elsewhere."
Have you ever seen the movie Do The Right Thing? It is an older movie, from maybe the 80s, that deals with racism in the inner city but it could be seen as a metaphor for the country (USA or the world maybe). There is a scene in it where a representative of every racial group from the neighborhood in the movie stands and delivers their rant about another race. Everybody has something bad to say about people in another group. I remember seeing that movie for the first time and laughing at the irony (it is kind of a funny scene in a weird way) as I realized that each group of people has something bad to say about another group. Human nature?
As a country we KNOW we have problems with all sorts of things here and we know you do too in your country. And, we know that much of the world has a problem with this policy or that.
The point is simply that we don't need people who act like they like us on one hand to say they think we are looney on the other. Kinda sucks, you know? And it makes us feel like the "other" group and I just didn't think that was cool and wish people would agree not to do that.
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by Luke » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:31 pm
ginat wrote: The point is simply that we don't need people who act like they like us on one hand to say they think we are looney on the other. Kinda sucks, you know? And it makes us feel like the "other" group and I just didn't think that was cool and wish people would agree not to do that.
Debating political differences doesn't mean you don't like the other person though??? I know people who vote Tory..and I hate their political view, and tell them that...especially after i've had a pint... but they're still my mates.
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by libby » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:38 pm
Yes thats why i didnt post on the gun topic, you didnt need to be american to see that its timing and wording was tactless and insensitive. But I think its up to you to ignore it or say 'hey this isnt appropriate right now' rather than censor future topics. Have your say, start a thread and point out how unfair things the portrayal of Americans has been on this site recently, but i would always say know to any form of censorship however well meaning it is meant to be.
Its your job to change people perspectives on such matters, you've got a great oppurtunity on this site!
I also think that you will find most brits are fairly critical of our own government and aspects of our culture, perhaps we dont talk about them on here as they are just accepted, but i dont think Britain is a shinig example of righteousness (sp?!) at the moment either.
Debate it out, dont just shut people up.
Its your job to change people perspectives on such matters, you've got a great oppurtunity on this site!
I also think that you will find most brits are fairly critical of our own government and aspects of our culture, perhaps we dont talk about them on here as they are just accepted, but i dont think Britain is a shinig example of righteousness (sp?!) at the moment either.
Debate it out, dont just shut people up.
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:41 pm
Luke252 wrote: Debating political differences doesn't mean you don't like the other person though??? I know people who vote Tory..and I hate their political view, and tell them that...especially after i've had a pint... but they're still my mates.
And they are your countrymen so it feels okay to you I would assume. If it was me saying you must be out of your mind not to vote Tory, and that your whole country must be crazy to not let them run everything their way 'cause clearly it would be best, it might feel a little different.
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by CheeZee » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:41 pm
.. " Do the Right Thing " .. is an excellent metaphor for what your saying (also one of my fav films 
) and your absolutely right ... " human nature " ?! possibly the herd mentality has to have something to 'hate' to know what to 'love' .. who knows ..i truly hope not , because we are all fleshed eventually if that really is the case, as it will only be a matter of time before that leaves 'only one' stood in the circle 
I have watched and listened for so long.. why does man spend so much time and money looking for a completely useless answer to the question " why are we here " when surely a more relevant question at this point in humankind time would be why does it seem that " we do not want to be here " ..and by that i mean everything important .. why war, why not share wealth, why not love each other, why not heal, why not accept each others faith ( i do not like the word religion as that word includes wealth and power from what i can see) ... whoa lol .. just had to pull the reigns on myself .. lets not slip into deep tokers water cheeze
Trust me .. we do know how you feel over the big pond , stating that we are English seems to wrongly translate into " i am a racist bullyboy " in some minds and i can see how .. my country spent a long long time rampaging accross this beautiful planet taking what was not ours and i can see how that has come back to haunt us.
No different to any other nation i guess all but a few maybe , so we'll all keep our heads up and if and when the time comes ..let us all hope that the love on this planet outweighs the hate , greed and control .. so that my son can inherit a life worth having not a life worth taking ( there isnt an emoticon that can display how i feel about that last bit ...
CheeZer
whoa a few of ya got in here whilst i was writing !
) and your absolutely right ... " human nature " ?! possibly the herd mentality has to have something to 'hate' to know what to 'love' .. who knows ..i truly hope not , because we are all fleshed eventually if that really is the case, as it will only be a matter of time before that leaves 'only one' stood in the circle
I have watched and listened for so long.. why does man spend so much time and money looking for a completely useless answer to the question " why are we here " when surely a more relevant question at this point in humankind time would be why does it seem that " we do not want to be here " ..and by that i mean everything important .. why war, why not share wealth, why not love each other, why not heal, why not accept each others faith ( i do not like the word religion as that word includes wealth and power from what i can see) ... whoa lol .. just had to pull the reigns on myself .. lets not slip into deep tokers water cheeze
Trust me .. we do know how you feel over the big pond , stating that we are English seems to wrongly translate into " i am a racist bullyboy " in some minds and i can see how .. my country spent a long long time rampaging accross this beautiful planet taking what was not ours and i can see how that has come back to haunt us.
No different to any other nation i guess all but a few maybe , so we'll all keep our heads up and if and when the time comes ..let us all hope that the love on this planet outweighs the hate , greed and control .. so that my son can inherit a life worth having not a life worth taking ( there isnt an emoticon that can display how i feel about that last bit ...
CheeZer
whoa a few of ya got in here whilst i was writing !
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by ginat » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:49 pm
CheeZee "as it will only be a matter of time before that leaves 'only one' stood in the circle"
You ellude to one of my all time favorite quotes! "And they came for me and there was noone left to speak out."
Peace dude!
You ellude to one of my all time favorite quotes! "And they came for me and there was noone left to speak out."
Peace dude!
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by Luke » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:06 pm
ginat wrote:Luke252 wrote: Debating political differences doesn't mean you don't like the other person though??? I know people who vote Tory..and I hate their political view, and tell them that...especially after i've had a pint... but they're still my mates.
And they are your countrymen so it feels okay to you I would assume. If it was me saying you must be out of your mind not to vote Tory, and that your whole country must be crazy to not let them run everything their way 'cause clearly it would be best, it might feel a little different.
Dude if you told me that, i'd say that i thought you were mental, and then i'd buy you a pint just the same....makes no difference...we'd still be friends.
To be honest, so many people my age don't have an opinion on these matters, it's nice when someone does...even if i don't agree.
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by northswell » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:43 pm
Can i apologise to anyone that i offended with the other thread, but this is an open forum and worldwide. I should have chosen some of my words more carefully.
I've visited the states, not your typical Brit holiday destination, and found all the people that i came accross as warm and friendly. It was by no means a cheap shot at American people.
I do feel your worries as i have a relative working as a lecturer in the US, it might happen where he works.
I would like to add though, is it because once again that the world is looking in at you as a nation, just like ours, that wants to dictate what happens in the rest of the world and we just can't do it.
I know that your news is very different from ours, log on to the BBC and say what you like about the crap that goes on over here. I won't be offended.
I've visited the states, not your typical Brit holiday destination, and found all the people that i came accross as warm and friendly. It was by no means a cheap shot at American people.
I do feel your worries as i have a relative working as a lecturer in the US, it might happen where he works.
I would like to add though, is it because once again that the world is looking in at you as a nation, just like ours, that wants to dictate what happens in the rest of the world and we just can't do it.
I know that your news is very different from ours, log on to the BBC and say what you like about the crap that goes on over here. I won't be offended.
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by CheeZee » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:09 pm
..please do .. the more voices the better !!log on to the BBC and say what you like about the crap that goes on over here. I won't be offended.
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