Aloha spirit

[CheeZee]

... " ahhh one of my favourite subjects ... i think regardless of beliefs Brent has summed up modern day religion perfectly

..."Religion is just a whole bunch of angry people arguing about who has the best invisible friend"

Nice one B' cause i would have been here all day with this one

[Surf_Nymph]

hey im not angry im just trying to show you the truth its not a religion for its life its what actually happened and continues to happen but terms of religion no other religion can come close to true christianity.

[CheeZee]

no no Nymph .. i wasnt saying you are angry ..but the big guys who run the show generally are ..thats why wars happen !! .. "my gods bigger than your god , my god was here first ,, my god is your god but in a different form ,,, my god owns your gods ass ,,,,

" All religion is blasphemy to a humans purpose " ...cheeZee 06

[Sweet!]

Or what if God is that unknowable essence?

The most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden?

What if all those evolution vs creation debates are NOT mutually exclusive but part of the one same process?

And I love it when people say...so... if we evolved from apes... how come we still got apes!??

[Surf_Nymph]

no thats alright cheezee i didn't mean to say that you were saying that i was angry. i was just clearing that i wasn't angry but its cool man.

if god did create us then yeah all other religion is blasphemy to god except for true christianity. like i said before me being a christian is not a religion it may look like a religion from the outside. people see a group of people meeting in a church to do who knows what.

What is a humans purpose?

not all the big guys are actually christians some might be some aren't and i do not really know why they would want such a big job in the church with out having a real relationship with god.

being a christian is hard at times but being a christian is something that you can't explain exactly what the feeling is its like somebody who hasn't tried out surfing they can't say what it really feels like.

true christianity isn't about fighting about whos gods bigger or anything its just that maybe sometimes we come across as being arrogant and thinking that we are the best but it is the truth that there is one god and one way through jesus christ the living saviour.

you might be thinking that im just trying to convert you or something but take it or leave it.

surf_nymph

[Broosta]

So erm do you not believe in evolution then Nymph?

I live in my own world where religion is absolutely discarded as complete fantasy. I am a total athiest, and I don't have any worries about being burnt in hell cos I don't beleive in hell either .
In my world I don't question evolution any more after I had it explained to me and it made complete sense. In my world we live on an insignificant round planet that rotates around a sun until it gets wiped out by a big lump of hard stuff travelling around the currently expanding universe at massive speeds. Oh yeah there was a big bang too at the birth of our universe!

I'm competely happy with the fact there are those that do believe in gods and stuff, good luck to you all .
I know you are not preaching nor attempting to convert but I do get pretty sick of other religious people who do.

In my world I don't see humans as being any more special than anything else. We do what we do then we die, and if we were lucky we had a good laugh .

[libby]

I completley agree with Broosta. I study evolution heaps at uni, and although you can never PROVE anything you can collect evidence in its favour. And there is alot of evidence showing that evolutionary processes are occuring. I would generally say that people who question evolution haven't ever studied at any great depth.

Saying that although i personally don't believe in anything i don't think evolution and religion are mutually exclusive, and its the people pushing creationism as fact rather than an analogy that bother me rather than christian per se.

Actually I live with a Krishna Fijian Indian girl, she's a med student. She's a lovely girl but when asked why she doesnt believe in evolution she sais "because its boring and i dont understand it". Thats the kind of attitude that bothers me.

In my (very humble) opinion, religion was devised by people to explain the world before science came up with the answers. In todays world it exists because people dont like the answers science came up with. Nobody likes to think that when they, or there loved ones die thats it, so people use religion as a buffer so they can help themselves deal with reality (by evading it). After all, who really wants to except that there isnt any meaning to life. Personally I dont think theres much wrong with that and that everyone is entitled to there own views, but at least accept that science is coming up with the goods, even if you choose to explain evolution with a religous beginning. If you dont believe in science, dont bother using electricity, taking medicines, going on a plane, eating your tea because science made all those things available to you, if science is false then how did they come to be?

What do i HOPE will happen when i die? I'd love to be proved wrong, really i do. Who wouldn't want to see everybody they've ever loved again, although i'd have a few things to say to God about SOME of his followers behaviour and some of his own behaviour.

What do I THINK will happen when I die? Lets just say I think i'll make really great compost.

Oh dear, I do believe i ranted

[Brent]

Ok, I'm surfed out, eating, & got time on my hands....here goes.

Today Churches & mainstream Christanity are becoming marginalised from mainstream society, this is a social trend that first began in the 18th century and carries on today. Christians should look inward and ask themselves why & think about the reasons why Religion was invented to begin with.
By using supernatural dogma (God stuff) societies were able to have an organised set of beliefs, to impart a moral code (set of rules) for acceptable behaviour (before 'law' was created), to offer hope for the future when you die and to make people feel there was a higher purpose to an otherwise hum-drum existence.

In our modern world religion has little purpose or future - collectively we now all believe in human rights and we value what humans have in common regardless of race, colour, class or gender.

To quote Lloyd Geering "We have come to see that what used to be divine attributes are actually human value judgements".

In our recent past we've seen the (Quoting Geering again) "the democratic emancipation from monarchy, slavery abolished, woman freed from male domination, contraception, racial prejudice abolished and homosexuality accepted. Churches & mainstream christianity missed the boat with almost all of these. This showed they were not actually on the side of freedom & human justice as they should have been because they were heavily committed to outworn dogmas of the past."

And this is why in our modern, educated & humane society God clubs & subsequent beliefs are almost extinct.

Now; I work with one woman who is a serious "born-again" christian. I have glanced casually at some of the propaganda she reads & leaves lying around...have any of you actually read this stuff? Full of guarded threats if you don't "repent your sins", off to hell with you should you have a beer after work...it's just plain silly.

Go to the Church of Surf instead :-))

ps - Lloyd Geering was Principal of Theological Hall, Knox College (NZ) is Professor of Religious Studies, Victoria University, (NZ)

[Roy Stewart]

I notice that born again christians and most evolutionists have a lot in common: Both types are equally dogmatic, and both types ignore problems with their own pet theories!

The existence of an intelligent creative life force is a concept which is compatible with evolution processes in general, and should not be thrown out as a possibility just because of the nonsense put about by fundamentalist so called 'christians' and other illogical religious crackpots.

[Roy Stewart]

[quote="Sweet!"]

What if all those evolution vs creation debates are NOT mutually exclusive but part of the one same process?

[quote]

I'm with you there sweet

[libby]

I said in my post that i don't believe religion and evolution to be mutually exclusive.

I think that is one of the biggest problems today; christians trying to disprove evolution and vice versa. For me there is no God but as i said i'm perfectly willing to accept that one day I may be proved wrong.

[Brent]

Most of the worlds true evils (absence of contraception in third world countries etc) are acts committed in the name of God.
One thing most people don't realise is some of our most thoughful scientists, Astronomer Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking etc were or are Christians who believe in "God". They're just not sure yet what God actually is...but Hawkings is working on it.

Sagan once said on his popular Astronomy tv programme "the thing I don't like about science is it destroys hope".

He was able to happily have a foot in both camps. Our world would be a far more stable & better place if others followed their example.

[Roy Stewart]

Well said Brent !

BTW when are we getting that reef update . . . . a few little birds have been telling me that the project is a zillion over the budget (or more specifically that they have run out of money, the reef is less than half finished, and no sponsors are coming forward to finish it )

Wrong thread I know, just wondering and I presume taht you are 'in the know'

[Brent]

The Reef has come to a standstill.

One side of the Arrowhead is fully laid (left hander) with bags about 80% full), the ramping bag at the head of the reef is not yet pumped full of sand and the left hander is not working properly yet.
The right hand side has the base matting laid but has yet to have the bags attached or inflated. The basic grunt work is done. In total the project is about 70% finished.

What happened is the original resource consent was due to expire late last year. Reef apartments (apartment complex directly over the road) were one of the main "objectors" to the original application and they were looking for any oppertunity to get the thing shut down. Doing a project with a since expired Resource Consent would have been the perfect oppertunity. The Reef guys had to get something in the water to legally qualify as a "work in progress" - or otherwise the Apartment complex woul;d have been taking them to court again - if you can't win with the RMA you just tie your opponent up in court at every oppertunity.

So, what happened is the thing went in the water at the most volatile time of the year weather wise in NZ (late November) - they managed to get the thing laid....but in the following days the pumping dredge has to abort each day's pumping due to inclement short-period windswells that sprang up out of nowhere.

Each day on that barge were 5-7 guys, getting paid commercial salvage/divers rates, equipment hire etc. The Barge itself had some mechanical problems as well. The money fast ran out.

The barge (that was on loan for free from the Port of Tauranga) is now currently being used for it's annual dredging programme within the harbour and will be for the next 3 months or so. It's unavailable for the reef project.

So, now, the community has a 75% finished reef with no more money forthcoming and no barge at the moment to pump it, the guys were hoping for a commercial radio station or someone like Vodaphone to come to the rescue for the final $300k but no-one is fronting up. Seems like it's lost momentum. The original enthusium at the beginning has turned into apathy for most potential sponsors. I cannot imagine the City Council will bail them out either as they fronted up with $300K in the beginning.

Frankly, I think the project management for this thing was appaling, never trust what is essentially a heavy engineering project to a group of enthuastic home-handymen. They should have applied for an extension to the Consent (they would have got it easily) and be laying it now - in the calmest time of the year, it would have been done & dusted.

I stand by my original comment about the reef, it's a valid & worthwhile experiment. It's just the silly buggars managing the job blew it. Watch this space...

Ps I note the master spin-doctors Kerry Black & ASR who designed it are distancing themselves & spinning for all their worth at the moment.

[Roy Stewart]

Thanks for the update Brent.

I was talking to a chappie from Perth the other day, apparently they built a reef over there a while back and the results were not so good because so much sand built up around the reef that the waves broke before they got to it, that's just hearsay though.

.

[kcskimkid]

im all for the aloha spirit. i just got back from oahu and kona big island. im feeling quite in the aloha spirit still

[CheeZee]

Stephen Hawking etc were or are Christians who believe in "God". They're just not sure yet what God actually is...but Hawkings is working on it.

.... hehehe im about two yards behind him but catching up shouldnt be a problem .... as i can run

Some cracking posts up above y'all ...seriously ..really good stuff !!

I personally am spiritual but not religous although if you spend time with me you would say that some of my idealls have been borrowed from every religion known to man .. that would be the the parts that tell us that " doing good to another " is good for us .. but i also call that common sense for the common good and that no one with intelligence should need telling that' ..the rest to me is all about control .. control of the good ..and control of the bad ..and more importantly those that abuse inbetween under the guise of a religion .
I believe in science but am not convinced all answers to life on earth can be found through any experiment ..ever ..
Are we an alien experiment that has long been forgotten by its originators ...maybe ..maybe not !

Life is a mass of contradictions ...we are not meant to know or we would know .. what created us-without doubt? ..whether there is a God -without doubt? ..wheredoes it all end-without doubt? ... we are simply not meant to know ..hehe which is exactly why we want to know ..and unfortunately that will be the question that takes us into an extinction agenda or into a life of understanding and peace .

" Its good ere' huh ?! lmao

and nymph .. " What is a humans purpose?" ...naaa ..thats for you ..mines for me ..yours is for yours .. " we are simply not meant to know x
But feel good for your beliefs as they add to your purpose

Peace and love y'all .. cracking posts from all x

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

id just like to know what kind of god would torture a man by killing his family just to prove a point to the devil...? seems like an insecure and hateful god who needs to grow up.

i think as one of the bloodiest most greusome books ever published, the bible should have a sort of surgeon generals warning on it. the bible is a good read, like stephen king or something.

so all these other religions are "made up"??? there are 5 major religions, most of which have more followers than christianity. if you were born in asia, youd probably a buddhist, which apparently means youre going to hell, based on geography and culture you were born to. does that seem fair to you?

[dougirwin13]

id just like to know what kind of god would torture a man by killing his family just to prove a point to the devil...? seems like an insecure and hateful god who needs to grow up.

Erm... Where does that happen?

-doug

[Sweet!]

All of these world's major religions teach humans to better themselves. To improve the quality of our inner and outer, and collective beings.

Each of these religions had a megga.. sorry...MEGGA..influence on the direction of world progress at that time. Not only at that time either!

Look at the great Arabian society that was built when Muhammed came! Moved us out of the dark ages and look at how the worlds knowledge of maths and sciences exploded as a result of people trying to do better and understand rather than waste time squabbling...

Look at how after 2000 years people who are still discovering the teachings of Jesus...still to this day are attempting to..'turn the other cheek' and follow the golden rule of treating others how we ourselves would like to be treated.

Isn't that strange?

Could these Divine educators all come from the one same God? Maybe their messages are modified slightly to suit the conditions in the world for that time.

That seems logical. Any kid growing up needs certain lessons as it develops. So to with humanity. The lessons we need as kids are not the same as those we need as adolescents.

Imagine crackin out the crayons with a 12 year old sayen, "now let's draw a picture of how we play nice".

Seems our ever advancing civilization would also benefit from lessons at different times a. The learning curriculum at university level is just as important as that for a 5 year old. Each still moves our progress forward.

Maybe that's where all the fighting comes from... each group of followers (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bhudists, Zoroastrians, followers of Krishna...)thinks their message is special and 'THE TRUTH' ..rather than seeing it as part of a bigger picture with the same essential message... "oh be nice people already!"

Maybe the reason we all think religion is stink and out of date is because:

1. We are listening to each other squabble rather than going back to the original Educators.

2. We are smart enough to figure out that the answers we are being fed just don't fit anymore. I mean.. who needs priests now that we can actually read and access God's message from the Quran, Bible, Bahgavad Gita...for ourselves now..

3. We are soo over primary school and are ready for secondary school and a new teacher, new course...new curriculum...?? You know that adolescent feeling where you just HATE being patronised and are SOO over being told what to think???

AYE!!!