Getting past the froth?

[farmersurfer]

Hey, can someone give some advice on how to get out to the back sets without busting a gut? I have a 7'6 mal (beginner) and find it hard to duck dive it even though i'm 6ft 4 and bout 13 stone, surely it's possible? Also, i was trying to wait sitting on my board and cant help but wobble about and eventually fall off (you can feel everyone sniggering at you ) wats an easy way to do this? Cheers

[little waves]

When I paddle out on my 7'9" (i can't duck dive this, its to big) one method i use is if the white water isnt to tall, paddle full steam head on to the white water, get as much speed as you can, then when you get to the wash grab your rails, do a push up (pushes the boards nose slightly down) and hold on for dear life. This doesn't work if the wash is to big though. if its big, you gotta wait for a break between sets, or sometimes you can find whats called a channel, which will be an area between two breaking points of the wave, so if your fast enough you can paddle up through there with not to many problems.

as for the wobbling while sitting on the board and falling over - happens to everyone at the beginning, no worries. only way to get better is pracice sitting up there, and you learn how to adjust, lean with the waves, etc. for me a big thing was learning where to sit in relation to where I lie, so that when I turn to go for a wave I can get to the right paddling position fast enough.

practice practice practice

[grub]

Hey, can someone give some advice on how to get out to the back sets without busting a gut? I have a 7'6 mal (beginner) and find it hard to duck dive it even though i'm 6ft 4 and bout 13 stone, surely it's possible?

Mate,

It might not be possible to duck dive your board; I don't know the dimensions of your board, but generally a mini-mal (as opposed to a mal) for beginners is quite thick and consequently buoyant.

"13 stone is approximately 83 Kilograms"

I weight any where between 85kg (13.5) to 100kg (16) depending on the time of the year and I would think twice before trying to duck dive a beginners mini mal. My choices in boards is a 9’6” traditional single fin mal, the best and only way for me to get through the break is to Eskimo Roll (also know as turtle roll). On a short board (talking less than 6'8") I have no trouble duck diving... also, if possible I look for the rip and jump in that; its a hell of a lot quicker and easier to get out the back.

... If your board is too big and buoyant to push underwater, the turtle-roll is a better option. As you approach the oncoming wave, grab the rails of your surfboard well ahead of your shoulders. Just before impact, turn over with your board so that it sits on the surface, fins up. While you're underneath the board, a frog kick will help propel you and your board through the breaking wave. When the wave passes, roll right side up. The turtle- or Eskimo-roll also is an effective defense against an oncoming loose surfboard or an out-of-control surfer. When you see either one headed your way, assume the turtle position and roll away from the oncoming hazard.

Here are a couple of sites on how to Eskimo/Turtle Roll your board:

• http://www.surfline.com/mag/features/learn_to_surf/step4.html
• http://www.jrlifeguards.com/sscpage3.html

Also, i was trying to wait sitting on my board and cant help but wobble about and eventually fall off (you can feel everyone sniggering at you ) wats an easy way to do this? Cheers

Obviously you need to get out there and practice... this is basic balance and positioning of yourself on the board and the best and probably only way to learn is to practice. Find the centroid of the board... and position yourself just behind this so the nose is slightly higher than the tail... relax... reposition yourself if necessary, when comfortable find some sort of a reference to this possition.
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"its more important to understand than to be understood"

[drowningbitbybit]

i'm 6ft 4 and bout 13 stone... i was trying to wait sitting on my board and cant help but wobble about and eventually fall off

The only way is practise!

But, to make you feel better, it can be difficult if you're a big fella
Particularly if all your weight is on your upper body - its puts a lot of weight above the board which makes it easy to fall off

Im pretty tall, and a lot of my weight is in my shoulders, so I sometimes struggle with it (or at least I struggle to sit casually without constantly having to correct my balance every time there's an inch high ripple). What often works best is to not try and sit on the board, but to sink the tail. So sit further back, so the tail sinks and you're submerged to the hips

[farmersurfer]

cheers guys. yea i figured i would get the hang of sitting on the board after just wondered if there was a certain technique. sadly my board is an NSP so it is very thick and boyant, i was thinking i might down-size to a 7'2 to make it easier to get through the walls of white water. I don't know wether i should stick on the 7'6 till i develope some basic skills though. I find, on the few occaisons i catch a green wave, that it comes quite naturally to me, maybe 3good years of skating helps me here. I don't know, should i get a smaller, less boyant board or should i be sensible and stay with the bigger, thicker NSP? also, as i'm pretty tall and heavy, does this benefit me in any way? my size and weight seems to put me one step behind in every sport i do, i used to ride motocross and it seems everyone is 5'4 and 9 stone, although i could use my weight to power through the corners. i seem to see this trend in surfing to?

[grub]

I don't know, should i get a smaller, less boyant board or should i be sensible and stay with the bigger, thicker NSP?

With an NSP there won't be to much difference between a 7'6" and a 7'2", I would save your money.

also, as i'm pretty tall and heavy, does this benefit me in any way? my size and weight seems to put me one step behind in every sport i do,
i used to ride motocross and it seems everyone is 5'4 and 9 stone, although i could use my weight to power through the corners. i seem to see this trend in surfing to?

Don't believe it! Yes, you are tall but not that heavy... I now choose to ride a 9'6" but when I was a little fitter I would ride from 6'1" up...

... I weight any where between 85kg (13.5) to 100kg (16) depending on the time of the year...

Always flutuated, do find it easier on a short board when arround 85kg; with more practice you will work it all out.
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"its more important to understand than to be understood"[/quote]

[sinistapenguin]

Hey

If you're worried about getting caught inside and not being able to get through the whitewater, you can always adopt my 'railsaver' technique to get you out back.

This worked for me for years - until I learned to duckdive properly (on my 7'5 mini-mal!!)

Look for the post about 'What to do if you get caught inside' on the forums - there's an awesome illustration!!

Cheers

Sinista

[grub]

... If you're worried about getting caught inside and not being able to get through the whitewater, you can always adopt my 'railsaver' technique to get you out back...

No, please give us the sketch again it is true and a far better method for those around you than the "chuck the board" approach... I use too use it and with the 9'6" still do on bigger days...
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"its more important to understand than to be understood"

[SurferFreak15]

Is an 8ft funboard to big for a duck dive?

Is it possible?

[grub]

Is an 8ft funboard to big for a duck dive?

Is it possible?

... Depends on how big the duck riding it is...

I don't know of any chart that says "this board is too big", but would say that there is one out there some ware. Use a bit of common sense; if the board is buoyant which most boards greater than 7 foot are then you are probably not going to be able to duck dive it... If the wave is just starting to break you maybe able to push the nose down and follow through to get under it, but proper duck diving is normally beyond these boards.

Do a little experiment and follow the steps to duck dive (plenty of site around)...here is basically what I do: laying on my board (in the water) raise into the pushup position (hand on the rails); the nose should go under and you then push down with either your knee but I prefer my foot at the rear of the board (still in the push up position, back arched up to apply as great a force as possible).... I can't explain what to do properly, but I have momentum from paddling out and as I push the boards nose in and follow with the foot, I sort of thrust the board forward and up we come nose first....wave or no wave this works for me... on a 6'5" my highest point (back) would be about 1 foot under... seen a lot of my Japanese mates go incredibly deep when there just playing around between sets...
___________________

"its more important to understand than to be understood"

[farmersurfer]

Ello! i went out to widemouth to hopefully get a chance to try some of the stuff you told me but annoyingly i got the tides wrong and it was virtually a shore break and a big mess. But thanks for all the help anyway lets hope i get some chance to practice soon! supposed to be good round christmas but as always they keep changing every forecast! Cheers!

[tomcat360]

when I used to (or still do when I doze off in the middle of a 6 hour session) fall off, I just make it look like im getting my back wet on purpose. I would start to wobble, then just grab my rails and throw my upper body under while on the board. I don't know if this just made me feel like it worked, or it did.

[trails surfing]

when i started i fell off my board when i was sitting and that was becaus i would try to hold onto my board with my legs(wraping them under it). if you make egg beaters with them it's a whole lot easier to stay deated. i've got a 7'6 so when i need to push though some tough white water i use the tutle roll cuz i have no chance at duck diving with it.

[Forfeit]

Man, today I had a very bad experience.

It was my fourth time in the water with a board and the sea was pretty bad. I could not win against the waves and didnt managed to go back there. The real problem is that everyone with me managed to, but I couldnt. I tried duckdiving, but I felt being pushed back every time the waves got me. Tried to go over them, since they were very small (but came every 10 seconds), but I couldnt manage to overcome them.

I dont really understand how you use your knee to duck dive. Do you just kick straigh? Use the front or side of the knee?

[drowningbitbybit]

I dont really understand how you use your knee to duck dive. Do you just kick straigh? Use the front or side of the knee?

Huh? One of us is confused...

During a duckdive, the knee (or foot) is to put weight on the rear of the board to sink it. Imagine you're trying to push yourself out the water - weight through your hands on the rails at the front, and through one knee or foot at the tail. But hopefully the board will sink rather than you coming out the water

[Brian]

lol during a long session il lie down on my board.... bear in mind my board is a 6'1 shorty, and im only 6foot

i feel like a tool when i do that lol

[mylow]

Is an 8ft funboard to big for a duck dive?

Is it possible?

... Depends on how big the duck riding it is...
I don't know of any chart that says "this board is too big", but would say that there is one out there some ware. Use a bit of common sense; if the board is buoyant which most boards greater than 7 foot are then you are probably not going to be able to duck dive it... If the wave is just starting to break you maybe able to push the nose down and follow through to get under it, but proper duck diving is normally beyond these boards.

Do a little experiment and follow the steps to duck dive (plenty of site around)...here is basically what I do: laying on my board (in the water) raise into the pushup position (hand on the rails); the nose should go under and you then push down with either your knee but I prefer my foot at the rear of the board (still in the push up position, back arched up to apply as great a force as possible).... I can't explain what to do properly, but I have momentum from paddling out and as I push the boards nose in and follow with the foot, I sort of thrust the board forward and up we come nose first....wave or no wave this works for me... on a 6'5" my highest point (back) would be about 1 foot under... seen a lot of my Japanese mates go incredibly deep when there just playing around between sets...

i learnt to duck dive from a magazine. i'll copy the instructions from Waves Magazine, this is how Mark Mathews does it

1. The Need For Speed
The first step in learning to duck-dive is understanding speed is your friend. "The best tip I've learned is to paddle as fast as you can at the wave. That way you've got heaps of forward momentum to push through the wave. You know how if a big one is coming at ya everyone backs off lets it hit 'em? Well, although it's hard to make yourself paddle hard when it's the biggest wave you've effin ever seen, it's definately the best way to duck-dive.

2. Dip A Rail
As the wave hits you (usually one-to-two feet before) raise yourself as if doing a push-up, keep your arms straight, hands gripping the rails, and lean forward to help sink the nose of your board. "Sometimes it's good to go one rail first when you are trying to get deeper. I dip the left rail and then push the nose down, it kinda sinks quicker."

3. Dig A Knee
Your legs play a crucial role. Once all your weight is forward and the nose is underwater push a knee (or a foot) into the tail. Arch your other leg as high as you can to gain leverage. Imagine a scooping motion. "I usually use a knee, I've tried it with me feet and it doesn't seem to make any differance."

4. Pull Up
As you feel the wave pass over you leverage out as flat as possible before pulling the nose up. "I definately try and get the nose up as quickly as possible otherwise is it stays down and the wave hits ya, it makes it heaps easier for the wave to drag you back wards. It just tows you all the way in."

5. Shallow versus Deep?
It doesn't always pay to duck-dive as deep as possible. "If it's the first wave in a big set and you want to get out of the impact zone, fast, then it's a good idea to sometimes not duck-dive tood deep. Just come up in the whitewash and let it mow you in [to safety] a bit."

6. To Ball or Not To Ball?
"Sometimes you have to otherwise if it's right where the lip's breaking it will push your head into your board and knock you out. But just make sure you don't tell anyone about it, espacially if your board breaks." PS. Check to make sure no one is behind you!

[IslandA]

Hey, can someone give some advice on how to get out to the back sets without busting a gut? I have a 7'6 mal (beginner) and find it hard to duck dive it even though i'm 6ft 4 and bout 13 stone, surely it's possible? Also, i was trying to wait sitting on my board and cant help but wobble about and eventually fall off (you can feel everyone sniggering at you ) wats an easy way to do this? Cheers

practice cheers~~!